Why I don't Beleave in any man made religion.

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XOMINOUS ANGELX

Guest
your going to say god wrote the bible and not man.. so lets clear up a few things I used to be a christian, and I beleave in God. However I am not generalizing him into man made beleaves..... as in the Bible...first of all know that this is going to be extremely long...and I will not use any dirty offensive language... this is why no longer beleave in christianity.(I apologize for my bad grammar in advance)

1.you cant get the story straight.. I did lots of research on religion... in the original jewish bible Adam was given a wife Lilith which apparrently was editied out because she was practically the first feminist and men back in the day liked to control there women. (also I am a guy and though I know it will never work consider myself a marxist). also Lucifer was not originally the devil... the word Satan means Adversary and in the book of Job.. Satan is talking with god serving him.... asking him if he can test Job because in the original text. Satan (ADVESARY) was not god's advesary he was man's. The Original DEVIL if you will was the Angel of Death SAMAEL. then comes the crusifixion and 200 years later Emperor Augustine wants to rule all of rome and needs an edge that his opponets don't have... hear in comes this the power of will and sphere of infulience... using relgion to gain power...

2.along with the power comes the desire for more power.. and control... how do you control someone.... you scare them to death when there children telling them if they do things YOU don't aprove of and YOU don't like something which someone decided was a so called sin, Doesn't like you scare them to think they are going to burn in a lake of fire forever (HELL). I do think murders and evil people who do the general things to hurt others should be punished.. but I think "your god" is very hypocritical for making us with a free will and then saying that where going to hell for using it.. I used to go to church... since I was like 5 trust me Hell is just a scare tactic to gain more control and recruit more new members. so the people in charge can have the illusion of controling people. like little sheep

3.Why hasn't god showed hiself to us yet? well I see it like this... I beleave originally he made us.. and did talk with us.... however... one sheep in the pack didnt like the way they did things... so they started calling god Allah.. then someone else said no... thats not right then they started calling god RA....ODIN....ZUES....and so on...then they start killing eachother.... god steps back...ignoring them....christianity alone is responsible for more death than anything else in the world.... though it has good princibles it has been used for war and power more than anything. God should not be generalized.. he should just be considered god with no name... unless he comes down right now and tells us who he is and what he wants from us...then all these weird rituals come in... and he is like what the heck these people I made are a bunch of fricken idiots.. im outta here...

5. Sexual sins..... it says if your a fag your going to hell basically... being the straight proud heterosexual that I am I could care less what other people do... sex and who you are attracted to is a built in animalistic instinct that everyone has whether they will admit it or not.. it isnt a choice... its how you feel and there is no reasons why you feel certain ways sometimes..... like love some people you love for no reason and some peopel you dont like for some reason... if I am going to hell because I disagree with christianity then I got to say this... if god is merciful like he says and is all knowledgeable and knows right now if im going to heaven or hell why would he of created me knowing full well that I am going to hell.. from the very get go.... I don't call that merciful at all... I call that having no remorse and being dark and twisted... if god knew I was going to go to hell he shouldn't of made me at all.

6.God "ALLOWS" satan/SAMAEL to exist... to test us....
ok god is suppused to know everything and anything the past and the future right.. then why does he let SAMAEL exist to "TEST" us.. if he knows the end result....(hear is the part where you say he works in mysterious ways) there is nothing mysterious about that it just doesn't make any sense.... I am not unworthy to understand gods comprehension I was made in his image after all...

basically Im saying this... I want to see god... more than anyone on this site.... the thing is though if I am wrong which hey no one is ever 100% right about anything... but if I am wrong... why should I go to hell I never killed anyone or did anything extremely terrible... I think people should be punished in some way but not for all eternity.... well thats about it I hope this gets some of you to think or maybee someone can logically anwser some of my questions without qouting scriptures I already know.
 
Because Im not a brainwashed sheep that beleaves everything I am told without seeing proof. I have a mind I think I ask questions.... it is called having a mind of your own and not being told what to do.. you would call me SIMON for not having faith in something I cannot see..... basically Im saying the bible is a tool for human personal gain if you misunderstood me..... after reasearching where it came from... and I know scriptures you don't know like from the book of enoch and about lilith which was editied out of the original context by christianity
 
yeah you got me there.... But still.. I bascially know the story... there is a lot to know and like I said Iam a former christain meaning I have not gone to church in a good five years. but still id like to hear some counters for my innitail arguements? instead of being the typical christain who has to find the one thing he is right about and make it known to the world
 
First off, where are your references?  You come in here making claims, but I see no references.

Now onto your points.

1)  This is from the Talmud, not the Torah.  The Talmud was more or less a commentary on the Jewish Bible, with numerous interesting stories, yet none of them were actually BIBLICAL.  Lilith was never in the Bible, though she was in the Talmud.  C.S. Lewis also used her as a literary device in his Chronicles of Narnia

2)  Who has this power?  Who controls you?  No, God is not punishing you for making a decision, God forgives those decisions when you make Christ the Lord of your life.  There is a difference.  We ALL deserve Hell.  Yet we can make a decision to not go there by accepting Christ

3) Millions of people die each year due to poor sanitation
Millions of people die each year due to heart disease
Thousands of people die each  year in car wrecks
Thousands of children are killed each year due to abortion

Are we to blame these deaths on Christianity also?  Why yes, there have been times when deaths has been called for by reason of Christ, yet there have been times when deaths have been called for by reason of Allah.  there have been times when deaths have been called for by reason of liberty.  And there have been times when deaths were called for, for the sole reason of who a person's ancestors were.  Yet to blame a religion for the mistakes of the past, is akin to blaming all Germans for the atrocities of Hitler.

4)? Got skipped

5) Sexual sins.  Sex is made for the marriage covenant, any use outside of that is sin.  Why is this so hard?  Animal instincts?  Last time I checked we had reason, we could control our impulses.  No it is a choice to decide whether or not someone is hetero or homosexual.  Numerous studies have proven that there is no genetic, nor mental difference between the heterosexual and the homosexual.  We all choose the 'lifestyle' we want.  
The other part, as to why God made you if you're destined for Hell?  He didn't.  He would rather you accept Christ's gift and live forever.  Let Christ pay the price for your sins, how simple is that?  Remember God is omniscient and omnipresent.  He knows all and is everywhere.  BAsically He sees the outcome for EVERY choice we COULD ever make, yet since we have freewill, while He sees the outcome, and He could probably guess which way we will choose, the choice is still up to us.

6) Why does Satan exist.  Well, here's a nice quote that sums it up (the entire article on Why Satan exists can be found at http://www.3s-company.com/Lesson%....ng.html )
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Does God do evil? BY NO MEANS! Yet He ordains everything that comes to pass. Does God ordain evil? YES! If God did not ordain evil then He would not be sovereign. But we trip and stumble over the word ordain. We think that God either wills the evil to take place within certain individuals or He does the particular action Himself. No, He ordains a creature with the capacity for evil. He doesn’t force His creation to exercise that capacity.

But if God knew beforehand that we would make such a mess of things, why did it let it happen? Why did he create us capable of sinning? In order for God to ensure that would could not sin, he would have had to tamper with our freedom of will - to create us not as full human beings but as puppets or robots programmed to do only what he wanted. But that would have rendered us incapable of loving God or one another, for genuine love cannot be coerced. Also, without free will, we would not be capable of moral responsibility, creativity, obedience, loyalty, or heroism. The only way God could create beings that are fully human was to take the risk that they would use their freedom to choose evil.

In his famous doctrine of "Blessed Fault," Agustine encapsulated the mystery of suffering: "God judged it better to bring good out of evil than to suffer no evil at all." Better to endure the pain involved in redeeming sinners than not to create human beings at all.
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Basically I'm saying this.  We all fall short of the glory of God. Here's your words
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]why should I go to hell I never killed anyone or did anything extremely terrible...
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Just because you're not a mass murderer does not make  you no less guilty of sin.  Also remember sin is sin, the punishement for bearing false witness is the same as the punishement for murder which is the same as the punishement for fornication, eternity in Hell.  Yet we have a way to pay that price, without suffering that price.  Christ died for us so that we could live with Him.  Christ willing laid down His life in liu of ours.  The Bible says
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Joh 3:15  That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17  For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
Joh 3:18  He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Joh 3:19  And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
Joh 3:20  For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
Joh 3:21  But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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I'm sorry but you are dead wrong when you say a person can "choose" their sexuality. There have been studies showing differences in the brains of homosexuals as compared to their heterosexual counterparts. There is also good evidence of hormonal differences and other factors in the womb that would affect a person's sexual orientation.
 
so you're saying it's a medical problem that can be medicated and corrected?

No Homosexual's have been saying for years that they're not a 'disease' They can't say it's genetic because that goes against evolution (a homosexual gene couldn't be passed down, it would have been breed out of the speices years ago), as well as creationism (we're created heterosexual). The only thing left is a choice.
 
I'm not saying it's a medical problem that can be corrected. That's like saying you can repair brain damage. Their brains have been permanently rewired; you can't change that. The fact that something is non-beneficial to a species or even a detriment does not mean it will not be passed down. Do you know what a spandrel is? People still get cancer, people are born with deformities, with diseases, and they still get many terminal illnesses that would obvously not be beneficial to a species, but nevertheless they still exist. In most cases, the effects of many genes combine to produce an outcome. Being gay is much more than the effect of a single gene.
 
Yet many who have been gay have, through choice, become heterosexual. You cannot do this with brain damage or cancer.
 
So it's a genetic disease?

*start sarcasm* With the advances we're coming up with in detecting genetic deformities in vitrio, maybe we can start checking for this, and offer abortions? *end sarcasm*

Timor is correct, people have chosen to be straight, people have chosen to become gay, and some have chosen to swing both ways. It's a choice.
 
So erm... how many people here have 'chosen' to be straight?
 
I suppose so? It follows in the argument, *HOWEVER* I would say that being straight is more of a natural inclination, and that to be gay requires more selective choice.
 
It's not a genetic disease. There is an environmental component and a genetic one. Environmental meaning within the womb. You would be well advised to pick up a book and learn a little bit about genetics and I'm sure if you tried you could also find out about some of the research done on homosexuality. It is ridiculous that you think a person chooses to be gay. Why would someone do that? To open themselves up to ridicule and hardships in life? They choose to be gay no more than a mentally retarded person chooses to be dumb. You seem to think that anyone could be gay or straight, and if they wanted, they can just turn around and change their mind. People who you claim have "become straight" maybe have tried to repress their desires, but I can assure you they are still gay.
 
***Disclaimer: this is not an attack on anyone! This is simply what God laid out to Isreal after taking them out of Egypt. Read the whole chapters to get the context of them more fully. I don't see homosexuality as a race of people but simply a sin done by people... just like greed, lust, alcholism, murder etc... No worse and no better. Sin is sin. Love the people, but hate the sin.***

***Please read the whole passage as this is only one thing out of numerous others regarding whom you may not have sex with... the only reason I used this one was because it pertained to what our discussion was about. ***
Leviticus 18:22
"Don't have sex with a man as one does with a woman. That is abhorrent.

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man has sex with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is abhorrent. They must be put to death; they are responsible for their own deaths. ***No I don't think we should kill them!***

*** This may explain why we see so much sin today ***

Romans 1:18
Ignoring God Leads to a Downward Spiral
18But God's angry displeasure erupts as acts of human mistrust and wrongdoing and lying accumulate, as people try to put a shroud over truth. 19But the basic reality of God is plain enough. Open your eyes and there it is! 20By taking a long and thoughtful look at what God has created, people have always been able to see what their eyes as such can't see: eternal power, for instance, and the mystery of his divine being. So nobody has a good excuse. 21What happened was this: People knew God perfectly well, but when they didn't treat him like God, refusing to worship him, they trivialized themselves into silliness and confusion so that there was neither sense nor direction left in their lives. 22They pretended to know it all, but were illiterate regarding life. 23They traded the glory of God who holds the whole world in his hands for cheap figurines you can buy at any roadside stand.
24So God said, in effect, "If that's what you want, that's what you get." It wasn't long before they were living in a pigpen, smeared with filth, filthy inside and out. 25And all this because they traded the true God for a fake god, and worshiped the god they made instead of the God who made them--the God we bless, the God who blesses us. Oh, yes!
26Worse followed. Refusing to know God, they soon didn't know how to be human either--women didn't know how to be women, men didn't know how to be men. 27Sexually confused, they abused and defiled one another, women with women, men with men--all lust, no love. And then they paid for it, oh, how they paid for it--emptied of God and love, godless and loveless wretches.
28Since they didn't bother to acknowledge God, God quit bothering them and let them run loose. 29And then all hell broke loose: rampant evil, grabbing and grasping, vicious backstabbing. They made life hell on earth with their envy, wanton killing, bickering, and cheating. Look at them: mean-spirited, venomous, 30fork-tongued God-bashers. Bullies, swaggerers, insufferable windbags! They keep inventing new ways of wrecking lives. They ditch their parents when they get in the way. 31Stupid, slimy, cruel, cold-blooded. 32And it's not as if they don't know better. They know perfectly well they're spitting in God's face. And they don't care--worse, they hand out prizes to those who do the worst things best!

*** Just because you say you are a Christian doesn't mean you are one... ***

Titus 1
3Dear friends, I've dropped everything to write you about this life of salvation that we have in common. I have to write insisting--begging!-that you fight with everything you have in you for this faith entrusted to us as a gift to guard and cherish. 4What has happened is that some people have infiltrated our ranks (our Scriptures warned us this would happen), who beneath their pious skin are shameless scoundrels. Their design is to replace the sheer grace of our God with sheer license--which means doing away with Jesus Christ, our one and only Master.

Lost Stars in Outer Space
5I'm laying this out as clearly as I can, even though you once knew all this well enough and shouldn't need reminding. Here it is in brief: The Master saved a people out of the land of Egypt. Later he destroyed those who defected. 6And you know the story of the angels who didn't stick to their post, abandoning it for other, darker missions. But they are now chained and jailed in a black hole until the great Judgment Day. 7Sodom and Gomorrah, which went to sexual rack and ruin along with the surrounding cities that acted just like them, are another example. Burning and burning and never burning up, they serve still as a stock warning.
8This is exactly the same program of these latest infiltrators: dirty sex, rule and rulers thrown out, glory dragged in the mud.
9The Archangel Michael, who went to the mat with the Devil as they fought over the body of Moses, wouldn't have dared level him with a blasphemous curse, but said simply, "No you don't. God will take care of you!" 10But these people sneer at anything they can't understand, and by doing whatever they feel like doing--living by animal instinct only--they participate in their own destruction. 11I'm fed up with them! They've gone down Cain's road; they've been sucked into Balaam's error by greed; they're canceled out in Korah's rebellion.
12These people are warts on your love feasts as you worship and eat together. They're giving you a black eye--carousing shamelessly, grabbing anything that isn't nailed down. They're--

Puffs of smoke pushed by gusts of wind;
late autumn trees stripped clean of leaf and fruit,
Doubly dead, pulled up by the roots;
13wild ocean waves leaving nothing on the beach
but the foam of their shame;
Lost stars in outer space
on their way to the black hole.
p. 14Enoch, the seventh after Adam, prophesied of them: "Look! The Master comes with thousands of holy angels 15to bring judgment against them all, convicting each person of every defiling act of shameless sacrilege, of every dirty word they have spewed of their pious filth." 16These are the "grumpers," the bellyachers, grabbing for the biggest piece of the pie, talking big, saying anything they think will get them ahead.
17But remember, dear friends, that the apostles of our Master, Jesus Christ, told us this would happen: 18"In the last days there will be people who don't take these things seriously anymore. They'll treat them like a joke, and make a religion of their own whims and lusts." 19These are the ones who split churches, thinking only of themselves. There's nothing to them, no sign of the Spirit!

20But you, dear friends, carefully build yourselves up in this most holy faith by praying in the Holy Spirit, 21staying right at the center of God's love, keeping your arms open and outstretched, ready for the mercy of our Master, Jesus Christ. This is the unending life, the real life!
22Go easy on those who hesitate in the faith. 23Go after those who take the wrong way. Be tender with sinners, but not soft on sin. The sin itself stinks to high heaven.
24And now to him who can keep you on your feet, standing tall in his bright presence, fresh and celebrating-- 25to our one God, our only Savior, through Jesus Christ, our Master, be glory, majesty, strength, and rule before all time, and now, and to the end of all time. Yes.

*** Love the person and hate the sin... but remember to be tender as Christ died for all sinners and showed us all grace (undeserved favor) when we were still in sin ourselves. God Bless! ***
 
Are you refering to Dr. Hamer's study that purported to find the 'gay gene'?  It was revealed to be a poorly written, unverifiable study.  about 3 years after Dr Hamer published, a Dr. Alan Sanders (also of the NIH), duplicated DR. Hamer's study and could not acheive verifiable results. ( http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/1998/jun/98061503.html )  There was also another Dr, in CAnada (can't remmeber his name) that attempted to duplicate Dr. Hamer's work and could not acheive verifiable results.  And here's an even better quote ( http://www.astro.washington.edu/ingram/gays)
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]"Homosexuality, the choice of a partner of the same sex for orgiastic satisfaction, is not innate. There is no connection between sexual instinct and the choice of a sexual object. Such an object is learned, acquired behavior, there is no inevitable genetically inborn propensity toward the choice of a partner of either the same or opposite sex."
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I find it amazing that people always associate my views on either lack of intelligence or lack of knowledge.  Is it so inconceivable that someone could possibly have read this stuff, knows a fair deal of just about everything, and form my opionions based on what i've read?

I'm sorry, but if this supposed gene prevents heterosexual sex then how can it not be a defect or a disease?  It prevents the continuance of the species.  Other forms of sterility are considered defects or disease.

Environmental issues (in-womb) cause homosexuality?  How is that?  Where did that come from?  I've heard that environmental issues might cause it, but it's always been post partem environment.  Let's see a link to this information so I can read it please.


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]To open themselves up to ridicule and hardships in life?
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You know it's funny.  Many of the choices I've made throughtout my life have opened myself up to ridicule and hardship.  That does not mean they were not my choices.  In fact quite a few of them, I knew in ADVANCE that they would open me up to ridicule and hardship and I choose to do it anyways.  The effects of a choice do not change the existence of a choice.  In fact how hard and loud homosexuals tend to clamor for the 'gay gene' makes me believe that it's a choice all the more.  For it removes personal responsibility if they're just acting in their nature.  I don't believe that there is ANYTHING in our genes that cause us to perform certain concious actions.
 
Forgive me for my um.. cluelessness, but Griswald, uh, what's with all the numbers in your discourse? Are you trying to provide a explanation to a certain passage in the Bible? My version(s) certainly don't say the same wordings... I don't get it... please explain this.. phenomena? and excuse me for my stupidity.

Oh! Oh! About the actual topic.. it seems of homosexuality, it appears that there is less ... so called "hardships and such" for gays and lesbians than before. In Edmonton, they recently got a parade or something, (I was quite displeased when I saw it in the paper <-- that's my stance.)... And in Ontario, the Canadian feds don't want to challenge the ruling that allows homosexuals to marry there... Seems to me that society is talking more and more about "tolerance", and it seems that there are less hardships for homosexuals... all in the name of "tolerance" for people who are differently "sexual orientated"... People are just as bad as they were 2000 years ago... future does not mean better...
 
Hey!!!
It's not stupid to ask something and it is no problem for me to answer
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I am sorry for not explaining it in the post but it seemed rather long... sorry :)
The numbers are there because I cut and pasted the verses of the Bible scripture from the Bible Gateway: http://www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible

You can do lookups on scripture from multiple translations and languages... the one I used was the Message and of course it was in English
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(the Message translation was translated using the dynamic equivalence theory mentioned below, just in case you cared :)
But please feel free to check any translation you want.

*** This is something I found in regards to how translations are done... these are not my words but simply taken from the book I read it from... ***
There are two general theories or methods of Bible translation. The first has been called "formal equivalence". According to this theory, the translator attempts to render each word of the original language into the receptor language and seeks to preserve the origional word order and sentence structure as much as possible. The second has been called "dynamic equivalence" or "functional equivalence." The goal of this translation theory is to produce in the receptor language the closest natural equivalent of the message expressed by the original-language text- both in meaning and in style. Such a translation attempts to have the same impact on modern readers as the original had on its own audience.

The reason I have mentioned all that stuff above is so that you will know that translations can also cause misunderstandings if the context is not taken into account... which is why you should study what you read just in case you are missing the real point of the passage.

Anyhow I hope you have a great night!
 
First of all XOMINOUS ANGELX I like your thinking, Marxism is a bit radical though, and I can agree with your point. The fact that you were once a Chrstian and are now not, wha tI beleive is either you do good, and live good or do bad and live bad, KARMA basically (gotta love hinduism) if your not a chrstian but still do good, you will still be as happy as any christian in the end! second of all about homosexuals (I'm straight) but nobody here has a right to judge what happens witht there mind when they become homosexual, unless they are homosexual,a nd nobody has the right to decide what will happen to them but them! To claim god dislikes them, is like claiming my dog doesn't like you, it's obscene it's ignorant and it's prejudice! Would you ever have sex with a guy?...it's so taboo we are afraid of it so people act out with fear (yes even the popes and leaders back in the middle ages) and suddenly make it so bad you got to HELL, I again feel offended (ADM. WILL YOU *EDIT*EIDT*EDIT* THIS POST FOR ME???lol) please people yes this is a Christian site, but if I wnted to argue with quote I'd pick up the bible, but what would that do???so please use your own minds!!!
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]second of all about homosexuals (I'm straight) but nobody here has a right to judge what happens witht there mind when they become homosexual, unless they are homosexual,a nd nobody has the right to decide what will happen to them but them! To claim god dislikes them, is like claiming my dog doesn't like you, it's obscene it's ignorant and it's prejudice! Would you ever have sex with a guy?...it's so taboo we are afraid of it so people act out with fear (yes even the popes and leaders back in the middle ages) and suddenly make it so bad you got to HELL, I again feel offended (ADM. WILL YOU *EDIT*EIDT*EDIT* THIS POST FOR ME???lol) please people yes this is a Christian site, but if I wnted to argue with quote I'd pick up the bible, but what would that do???so please use your own minds!!!
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BygByron, you're really beginning to frustrate me.
First of all, you said the infamous "use your own mind" line. I hate that line. That is such an ignorant comment that I'm not even going to touch it anymore.

About judging, we Christians are not judging - we are rather stating the fact which our God has laid down. We do not hate homosexuals, but are told to love them as any other.

Furthermore, we never said that God dislikes them. God loves everyone. However, God hates sin, and so he dislikes the SIN of homosexuality - not the homosexual. Popes in the middle ages did not make it wrong. God's law made it wrong, thousands of years before the Middle Ages. Homosexuality is not something new. Heck, greeks and romans were fine with it (between men, atleast...for romans, sex between women was taboo).

Now, if you want me to think extrabiblically and use my own mind, I must admit, apart from Christ I am really not a big fan of homosexuals...not at all. But, wait, you're gonna call that prejudice, which you also said you don't want. And if you DO call it prejudice, you're "judging my mind" or whatever! *Gasp*

*sigh* These noncoherent posts make my head hurt, this is my last reply for a couple hours..

And by the way, if you're going to respond, feel free to use periods and other helpful punctuation - it lets people know when its ok to breathe.
 
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