QQ MOAR

[CGamer]

Oh and did I mention I lost about 50 spell damage because of the spell changes...also I am still confused by the healing changes, in DPS gear I have 1200'ish spell damage & healing, if I switch to my former healing gear I drop 1000 or less.

 

[silverpie]

Speaking of not taking long, we've already been hotnerfed...divine storm reclassed as physical, plus a warlock buff targeted directly at us (Master Demonologist/Felguard reduces Holy too). They've promised us a makeup buff in a later patch...

 

[nattyg]

New talent:

[Tears of the Divine]
For every post you make complaining about how Paladins are underpowered or nerfed, your spell power will be increased by 10.

LET IT BEGIN!

 

[Proudfoot]

You take a class (not just ret pallies, non-shadow priests for example) that has had to fight tooth and nail and learn how to take mediocre talents and turn them into decent damage and you give them an equal footing after a year, and you'll find them doing more then average. Not because they are OPed, more because they are just working harder plain and simple.

And then people QQ. As one of those non-shadow priests, I've been through nerf after nerf that had more to do with lazy skills of other classes then my class actually being overpowered.

Ya, I've had to scrape every little bit of DPS out of the old garbage Ret talents for so long that the new stuff is easy mode. I ran Kara the other night in a PUG and blew everyone away in damage, it wasn't even close. Everyone assumes Ret is OP now but like Aves said, we've just plain tried harder for so long it's second nature. I love that Blizzard acutally came out and said that hybrids were disigned to do 25-30% less damage in BC and they will now be equal.

 

[Odale]

I love that Blizzard acutally came out and said that hybrids were disigned to do 25-30% less damage in BC and they will now be equal.

Before, you could heal yourself when taking damage, become impervious to damage, stun, be a viable tank in a raid, be a viable damage dealer in a raid or PVP, be a viable healer in a raid and be THE best PVP healer in the game... AND now you are equal to all other DPS classes which specialize in doing only DPS. These other classes cannot heal themselves on the same level that paladins can nor can they tank, be impervious to damage or anything else on the level that paladins can be...

Man, if I were another DPS class I would start QQing almost as hard as the pallies have always done!

Blizzard needs to get their act together, blow 'em all up and try again!

gah!

Gets me frustrated to think about it... I don't even play anymore!

 

[Goblit]

<pats Odale>

 

[CGamer]

As a pally even I'll say the new Ret talents are way overdone. They are literally unstoppable in PvP and now I'm lucky if I can get in 2-3 swipes on Alhana and Gnimish.

I'll also be the first to admit that the new frost talents for mages are a bit OP as well. If fingers of frosts procs, I can kill you in 3-4 casts of ice lance, 4k frostbolt crits, instant cast Fireball. I totally murdered a fire mage the other day and he jumped me and I had 1/2 life.

 

[Avesther]

Oh and did I mention I lost about 50 spell damage because of the spell changes...also I am still confused by the healing changes, in DPS gear I have 1200'ish spell damage & healing, if I switch to my former healing gear I drop 1000 or less.

Your healing set my have more spell damage for DPS but it has zero hit so when casting on a boss that is effectively 3 levels above you, you will have an insane amount of misses and resists.

I dropped all my dps gear because I know I'll never truly be a dps and having a 25% resist rate on quest mobs is no big deal. Even though I have 400 more +damage in my healing gear then I did in my DPS gear my overall dps has dropped a bit because of the miss\resist rate.

 

[galatian]

yeah ret pallies are getting on my nerves a bit... i had one in a pug and he DESTROYED in dps it was just sad. i think they should be doing a bit less then the devoted dps classes because all we can do is do dps... we cant tank we cant heal.
i like that rets finally get a chance but again its a bit overdone

 

[CGamer]

Prior to the Patch I had about 1600 to +heal from my heal set however after the patch my heal set only gives about 900-1k healing.

My DPS set though has 1200+ spellpower/healing, so I'm really considering ditching my old healing gear.

 

[Avesther]

Could be true to.

My healing went from +2153 healing power and sustain HPS of 800 to 900 to +1200ish spell power but my overall throughput is upto sustained HPS of over 1500.

 

[Plankeye]

I switched to ret last night to help DPS during Kara and guess what? You can't tank as ret in ret gear. I demonstrated that quite effectively by having the most deaths in the run. It is also obvious that you can't heal in ret gear either. So why paladins suddenly have the ability to do all three at once is quite amazing to this paladin. I really must have messed up my uber pally build somewhere...

 

[Lloren]

I switched to ret last night to help DPS during Kara and guess what? You can't tank as ret in ret gear. I demonstrated that quite effectively by having the most deaths in the run. It is also obvious that you can't heal in ret gear either. So why paladins suddenly have the ability to do all three at once is quite amazing to this paladin. I really must have messed up my uber pally build somewhere...

heal in ret spec. (w/healing gear not ret gear) seems possible. i was topping healing for Winterchill fight on Monday in healing gear ret. specced. You can do some amazing things mana regen wise using judgements of the wise, healing glyphs. Its like a melee healing class (Warhammer has this). Tanking in ret spec might be difficult because there is very little mitigation (parry) in the ret tree.

It will be interesting to see what types of duel-specs emerge in WotlK.

 

[Lloren]

Interesting (and lively) debate on the forums about the Ret and Holy healing topic:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/t...42B723455A9.app05_06?topicId=8765633589&sid=1

 

[Proudfoot]

yeah ret pallies are getting on my nerves a bit... i had one in a pug and he DESTROYED in dps it was just sad. i think they should be doing a bit less then the devoted dps classes because all we can do is do dps... we cant tank we cant heal.
i like that rets finally get a chance but again its a bit overdone

This is really a bad argument and most people who use it don't play hybrids. There are no "pure" dps classes anymore and all raid buffs are overlapping so hybrids don't provide more utility then the old "pure" classes.

They say "because hybrids can heal and tank they shouldn't be able to dps as well as a pure!"

Look at that statement again in a different form...

Because hybrids can dps and heal they shouldn't be able to tank as well...

Because hybrids can tank and dps they shouldn't be able to heal as well...

You can see that the logic here is flawed and nobody wants to bring a sub-par healer, tank or dps. Therefore hybrids must be competitive in DPS or they will not be brought. Hybrids used to get raid spots because of the unique buffs they provided even if their dps wasn't the greatest. All raid buffs can be provided by several classes now so this is no longer a valid reason to bring them. Blizzard realized this fact and addressed the issue. It may take time to get used to but this is 3.0 and it's not changing any time soon.

 

[Proudfoot]

I switched to ret last night to help DPS during Kara and guess what? You can't tank as ret in ret gear. I demonstrated that quite effectively by having the most deaths in the run. It is also obvious that you can't heal in ret gear either. So why paladins suddenly have the ability to do all three at once is quite amazing to this paladin. I really must have messed up my uber pally build somewhere...

From what I've read on the "Maintankadin" forums while leveling Ret will be a decent tank IF wearing tanking gear. Ret is the fastest leveling spec and a lot of the tankadins will be going ret for leveling so they can grind faster while solo and still remain a good 5 man tank.

Specing Ret and doing some healing is... meh. You might be able to heal decently at 70 and even while leveling if wearing healing gear but lv80 raids are out of the question. You won't have anywhere near the longevity or healing throughput that Holy will have.

It seems that some people think there is a 51/51/51 spec and that we can do everything amazingly all the time. If you spec to do something, you should be able to do it well. You'll be okay at other stuff but not great.

 

[Where]

Before, you could heal yourself when taking damage, become impervious to damage, stun, be a viable tank in a raid, be a viable damage dealer in a raid or PVP, be a viable healer in a raid and be THE best PVP healer in the game... AND now you are equal to all other DPS classes which specialize in doing only DPS. These other classes cannot heal themselves on the same level that paladins can nor can they tank, be impervious to damage or anything else on the level that paladins can be...

Man, if I were another DPS class I would start QQing almost as hard as the pallies have always done!

Blizzard needs to get their act together, blow 'em all up and try again!

gah!

Gets me frustrated to think about it... I don't even play anymore!

Thats like saying warlocks shouldn't be able to deal as much shadow damage as a shadow priest. There are 3 talent trees for a reason, and hunters as BM and warlocks with soul link and all the pet specialties can tank for themselves quite decently. What about all the boss encounters that use mage tanks or warlock tanks, etc, does that make them a hybrid class too that needs to be knocked down in DPS?

 

[Exo-Slayer]

Here is the only problem I see. Blizzard is adding in a new ability sometime after the expansion is released that allows you to change spec on demand and they have said they want it to have a short cool down so it could be done in between pulls if needed.

Now if the Hybrids all have 100% of the ability of non hybrids with the right gear and spec why bring non hybrids? Being that they are also homogenizing gear a lot of healer/dps/tank gear is going to overlap. If with the press of a button you can be a top tier healer or top tier dps or even tank why bring the class that can only deal damage. I mean as it is every raid I’ve ever been on its always easiest to replace a DPS, so having DPS that can on the fly fill in for a healer or tank that leaves is something pretty big imo.

As far as fights that require mage tanks I know of one since the release of the game so I’m glad that I’m considered a hybrid because of it. I think that the hybrid classes should be very competitive for damage but be slightly below the non hybrid classes within 5-10% or so.

 

[Avesther]

I think the only non-hybridable classes are mages, rogues, hunters and warlocks. Blizzard can sit down and ask what additional utility can they add to the classes that would make bringing them more desirable then a raid full of hybrids.

But lets face it, we are talking about Redeemed here. Since when have we taken the easy way out?

 

[Odale]

I switched to ret last night to help DPS during Kara and guess what? You can't tank as ret in ret gear. I demonstrated that quite effectively by having the most deaths in the run. It is also obvious that you can't heal in ret gear either.

Why were you trying to heal and tank in a DPS spec?

I didn't (or I wasn't try to) say that you could do all 3 at once, but rather all you needed to do is respec to be able to do all three with as much competence as the other classes in the game who only do these things, whether it be heal, tank or DPS. Gear is so easy to get that it should not be a hindrance to accomplish this.

...What about all the boss encounters that use mage tanks or warlock tanks, etc, does that make them a hybrid class too that needs to be knocked down in DPS?

Warlocks and Mages can only "tank" two bosses in the entire game, one for each class (that's how it was in January when I quit that is). 'Tankadins' can tank many more than Mages and Warlocks can. These fights were specifically tailored to Mages and Warlocks abilities to mitigate the type of damage the bosses do. Also note that in both cases it was ranged magical DPS, not mele. If it was mele, then Mages and Warlocks could not have 'tanked' them.

I am not trying to say that Paladins can do all three at once. What I am saying is that a Retribution specced Paladin can DPS just as efficiently as any of the other DPS classes, Holy specced Paladins can heal just as well as either of the other healing classes (one of which is also a hybrid) and they can tank as well, if not better, than warriors.