Paul's Warnings of False Apostles

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Paul warns of False Prophets – he calls them ‘false apostles’ (apparently having no sense of the irony).   Christ had also warned of False Prophets, but He was talking about Paul.  

    The differences between Christ’s warnings and Paul’s are significant.  Where Christ gives criteria for recognizing error (we would know a Tree by its fruit), Paul just issues blanket condemnations.  And no spiritual perfection is beyond the reach of Paul’s attack.  In one instance he says, quite uniquely within all of the Bible, that Satan can appear as an “Angel of Light”.  Christ never said such a thing.  The Prophets and the Patriarchs never said such a thing.  And in all my readings in hagiography I have found numerous references to the very contrary – that a Saint with any experience at all is well able to discern between Angels and Demons entirely on the  quality of their light – that Angels have a clarity and transparency in their Light, while demons are opaque.  If Paul really knew anything Spiritual – if his knowledge was anything more than just a ‘natural’ glib cleverness – he certainly would have known the difference between an Angel and a Demon.  

     There were and are repercussions for Paul’s sweeping warnings against all things Heavenly and Divine.   Paul may have had no greater end in sight then merely discrediting his Rivals – The True Apostolic Disciples and even the Real Apostles themselves.  Paul would have had his followers believe that the True Disciples’ very appearance of Righteousness was in itself a valid indictment against them, along the lines of, “Sure they look good and sound good, but Satan can counterfeit all that!”  What more could Satan want then to make us overly suspicious of all things Good, Righteous, Divine and Holy?  And this is exactly what Paul accomplished!  For instance, whoever takes Paul’s admonition seriously would never again give credence to any apparent “Angel of Light”.  The Protestants and many Pauline Catholics take this to mean that Divine Revelation is effectively closed – that anything that manifests spiritually must certainly be dismissed as a suspected apparition of Satan.  Therefore, in the face of all modern evidences for contemporary Divine Revelation, the Protestant, supported by Paul, is in fact more obdurately Atheistic in their negative response than even the Atheists themselves.  Given enough ‘proof’ the Atheist will eventually believe, but the Protestant ‘believes’ that he is forbidden to ‘believe’.  Satan, through Paul, has effectively closed their ears and blinded their eyes.  

     However, it is a testament to human gullibility that Paul’s readers make Paul the exception to his own rules.  If Paul would have us believe that everyone who shoots off his mouth, making huge claims to Christ-like pretensions, is a “False Apostle”, then why in Heaven or Earth is Paul considered exempt from what should be the obvious conclusion?  When everyone else was supposed to be a Devil, why should they have thought Paul a Saint?   There is an answer – a very human answer.  I’ve seen people stick with their Gurus even when the most blatant scandals began to unravel their schemes.   Paul’s followers had an emotional investment in him.  He was obviously charismatic and he demanded loyalty.  And years of loyalty develop into emotional dependency.  They were caught in his net.  When asked to choose between their Cult Leader and the Real Apostles, they only needed an excuse to support their Cult Leader.
 
Come now little one, did you bother to look up the meaning of the word "of"?
It means in the connotation that Paul has used it, ONLY that demons can appear with the appearance of light.
But in no way does the use of the word "of" Quantify or Qualify THE NATURE of that light.
This is why the GIFT OF DISCERNMENT BECOMES AN INVALUABLE AIDE.
And that GIFT ONLY AVAILBLE BY THE HOLY GHOST.
So the ungifted person might mistake an Angel of Light as AN ANGEL OF GOd, i know i can not be so confused, for in the vast majority of times, THE ANGELS OF GOd APPEAR ON THE STREET CORNERS AS BEGGARS AND THEY HAVE NOT THE ACCOMPANYMENT OF LIGHT WITH THEM AT ALL!
So as you LOVE TO DISPARAGE Paul, by it you have disparaged youself most of all!
For the easiest method to employ in discovery when it comes to angels and leo volonts is ASK THEM TO SAY:JESUS IS THE LORD or THE LORD JESUS.
i see thus far you have said neither!
So then i will cast you into the lot you have come to unclude my brother PAUL WITH, AND THAT IS false prophets, apostles,and angels of light.
YOU have continued to throw yourself up against me, and i will continue by THE LORD GOd JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH i CAN SEE WITH my FLESHLY EYES,to KICK YOU BACK!
Try harder leo!
i am nothing0 AND EDUCATED BY THE HOLY GHOST TO FERRET OUT ALL ALL THINGS CAST(MEANS TO BE FORMED) IN DARKNESS. AMEN
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA.AMEN
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (adelpit346 @ Oct. 25 2003,3:35)]Come now little one, did you bother to look up the meaning of the word "of"?
It means in the connotation that Paul has used it, ONLY that demons can appear with the appearance of light.
But in no way does the use of the word "of" Quantify or Qualify THE NATURE of that light.
This is why the GIFT OF DISCERNMENT BECOMES AN INVALUABLE AIDE.
And that GIFT ONLY AVAILBLE BY THE HOLY GHOST.
So the ungifted person might mistake an Angel of Light as AN ANGEL OF GOd, i know i can not be so confused, for in the vast majority of times, THE ANGELS OF GOd APPEAR ON THE STREET CORNERS AS BEGGARS AND THEY HAVE NOT THE ACCOMPANYMENT OF LIGHT WITH THEM AT ALL!
So as you LOVE TO DISPARAGE Paul, by it you have disparaged youself most of all!
For the easiest method to employ in discovery when it comes to angels and leo volonts is ASK THEM TO SAY:JESUS IS THE LORD or THE LORD JESUS.
i see thus far you have said neither!
So then i will cast you into the lot you have come to unclude my brother PAUL WITH, AND THAT IS false prophets, apostles,and angels of light.
YOU have continued to throw yourself up against me, and i will continue by THE LORD GOd JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH i CAN SEE WITH my FLESHLY EYES,to KICK YOU BACK!
Try harder leo!
i am nothing0 AND EDUCATED BY THE HOLY GHOST TO FERRET OUT ALL ALL THINGS CAST(MEANS TO BE FORMED) IN DARKNESS. AMEN
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA.AMEN
Dear Adelpit

All you have is insults for me. Will you be proud of your haughtiness during the day of Judgment?

You think you are teaching me about the Angels and the Demons. What can a Prot ever teach a Catholic. It is you Prots who pride yourself in how much you disbelieve. Catholics believe in the Saints and they have taught us a lot. You think you need to say this and that about Jesus to uncover a demon. A Catholic knows that he only need make the Sign of the Cross - a Sign that Protestants have renounced.

This is a good point to rest on. That Protestants have renounced the Sign of the Cross -- in order to not offend Satan. And that Protestants wear and display empty crosses -- they have taken Christ off the Crucifix. Let us continue with this logic -- Christ gave Mary to Us, and Us to Mary (Gospel of John, at the Crucifixion), yet Protestants have thouroughly renounced Mary and I find can't refrain from insulting Her at every opportunity.

Now, technicalities which we may speak of dispassionately -- yes, I admit that the Holy Spirit may discern between Angel and Demon. However, it must be obvious to anybody who thinks about it that not one Christian in a Million has the Holy Spirit -- and those are very optimistic odds. The Last first magnitude Saint I know of was Padre Pio and he died in, what, circa 1975. As far as I know, on earth today there is not one single person possessed of or in possession of the Holy Spirit. Now, this isn't to say that there aren't any. Padra Pio was kept almost a prisoner and the general public found out about him only through some lucky interventions from outside the Church's Establishment. Many Bishops find Saints an embarrassment and have them locked away. It is no secret that the Secret Society of Free Masons has extensively infiltrated The Church -- many Bishops are in the Hands of Satan -- we just can't be sure of who they are. But there must be many -- for instance, the Councils of Bishops are campaigning for a Doctrine that their Decisions be declared Imfallible. Well, each Bishop should know that Christ said there would be 'tares amoung the wheat'. Thus knowing that The Church would be in some degree impure, it would be a violation of prudence ever to assume an inviolability of Truth that is not only unsupported by anything Christ says, but rather denied by Him. Also, all of the Apparitions of Our Lady over the last 200 years have not been in unalloyed Praise of the Clergy and the Bishops, but have to the exact contrary deplored their carelessness and corruption. So, any Bishop, and it is the most of them, who would agitate for Absolute Power in The Church with their political Councils, must certainly be controlled by the Free Masons.

So, in addition to not having the Holy Spirit, we must contend with the obfuscations of Satan. Our only resource here is in prayer for Clear Thinking and True Discernment -- which we must treat like breathing -- we breath in and out. We must not spend more than half our time in prayer, when we need some of that time for thinking. Now, I am not opposed to anybody for praying for the Holy Spirit to deliver them from confusion, but unless a person walk on water to prove it, to claim knowledge by the Holy Spirit is simply ridiculous. There have been enough Saints in Church History for us to know when a person has the Holy Spirit and when he does not. It is only the Work of Satan to try to cheapen the Holy Spirit to ordinary standards and capabilities.
 
well you renounce Paul and we renounce Mary shouldn't we be even? We don't have anything against Mary we respect her and believe she was a godly woman and a great example but not divine. We don't regard Paul as perfect, he brought the gospel of Jesus Christ and founded many churches in Christ's name not his.

Regarding the crucifix...

I prefer to remember Christ as risen not dangling on the cross. But that's my preference. Not sure how that draws on the graven image commandment but I don't fault people for wearing them.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 25 2003,10:08)]well you renounce Paul and we renounce Mary shouldn't we be even?  We don't have anything against Mary we respect her and believe she was a godly woman and a great example but not divine.  We don't regard Paul as perfect, he brought the gospel of Jesus Christ and founded many churches in Christ's name not his.  

Regarding the crucifix...

I prefer to remember Christ as risen not dangling on the cross.  But that's my preference.  Not sure how that draws on the graven image commandment but I don't fault people for wearing them.
Okay, lets weigh Paul and weigh Mary.

Paul is a one eyed lame murderer who was known as a liar and an embezzler (The Dead Sea Scrolls).

Mary is the Immaculately Conceived Sinless One -- Daughter of God, Mother of God, Spouse of God.

So, the numbers may be even - One against One -- but the weights are off. You see, it has always been the tendency for Protestants to equate Mary with just any arbitrary Jewish girl who happened to have been handy. What is lacking is the sense for the Appropriate. Luke tells us of at least the Virgin Birth. We have the Angels testifying for Her. We have John testifying for Her. We have hundreds of years of Current Revelation Testifying for Her.

With Paul. Paul testifys for Paul. I told one Poster today that the Book of Acts reads as much like an indictment against Paul.

You need to imagine what might have been, if Paul had not destroyed it. We would have had a Church that would have grown organically out of Jewish Tradition and Law. The separation we have today between Jew and Gentile -- and of Muslim... this is all Paul's fault. Paul was not making converts. Paul was stealing converts. Every person that Paul seduced to His Church of Easy Salvation by Faith Alone, he stole from the Church Established by Jesus Christ for Righteousness, Penance, and Respect for The Law of the Chosen People.

No, we would not be even -- My Perfect Blessed Virgin is worth a trillion of your horsethief Pauls.
 
The bible does not mention Mary being sinless, only Jesus. No proof on that other than man made doctrine.

Yes Paul was a murderer and a religious zealot. The bible does not list Mary's sins but does mention her making a sin offering.

Jesus met Paul personally to have him take the message to the Gentiles. He turned from being a Chirstian murderer to a spokesperson. Both Paul and Mary were obedient to God.

What si this about the dead sea scrolls I'm curious
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 25 2003,10:08)]well you renounce Paul and we renounce Mary shouldn't we be even?  We don't have anything against Mary we respect her and believe she was a godly woman and a great example but not divine.  We don't regard Paul as perfect, he brought the gospel of Jesus Christ and founded many churches in Christ's name not his.  

Regarding the crucifix...

I prefer to remember Christ as risen not dangling on the cross.  But that's my preference.  Not sure how that draws on the graven image commandment but I don't fault people for wearing them.
Oh, the Crucifix.

Again, we find Paul teaching the Protestants that it is not Christ's Suffering that saves them, but his Rising.

No.

Christ is God. Yes, the Resurrection shows Christ's Immortality. But Christ had already risen several of the Dead before His own Resurrection. We already knew that Christ could defeat Death. The little girl and Lazarus proved that much.

But the Suffering -- that was the new element.

Christ had asked us to Pick up our Crosses and Follow Him. The Crosses were to have bodies. Our bodies if needs be. The Protestant cross is an abandoned cross.

But, too fine a point can be made on this issue. A Plain Cross is certainly easier to fabricate then a Crucifix, and may be used in a pinch. But already Protestants have done too much to De-Christianize their Christianity. Removing the Suffering Christ from view is just one more thing. The Rejection of the Holy Sacrament would certainly be another. That combined with Doctrines entirely sourced out of Paul, and you no longer have a Christian Church.
 
Leo from all your readings you make it sound like Catholism is the greatest thing in the world. Not only that you openly attack every christian by saying that we are going to hell because we believe in the teachings of paul.

maybe if you spent half the time that you did on these boards trying to change something, maybe people would listen to you, but as far as i have read/heard from you, i have been hearing from many of my catholic relatives.

This is not an attack on you, at all, but look at your motives here, is it to glorify Christ, or to make ever dirty prot( as you so lovingly put it) feel bad? You forget that Christ said to love EVERYONE, no matter what, love the person, hate the sin. You may not agree with us but show the Christ like love if you are truely a Christian ( yes catholism is Christianity).
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 25 2003,11:09)]The bible does not mention Mary being sinless, only Jesus.  No proof on that other than man made doctrine.  

Yes Paul was a murderer and a religious zealot.  The bible does not list Mary's sins but does mention her making a sin offering.

Jesus met Paul personally to have him take the message to the Gentiles.  He turned from being a Chirstian murderer to a spokesperson. Both Paul and Mary were obedient to God.  

What si this about the dead sea scrolls I'm curious
The Bible is not the be all and end all of information. It is as a complete collection of Jewish Scripture as can be found compiled anywhere, although, there is the glaring omission of the Story of the Fallen Angels which we only know by oral tradition and a few references from the Prophets. The New Testament was never intended to give any information beyond the First Generation of Apostles -- the inclusion of the letters of Paul was a surprising exception to this rule, since he wasn't one of the Original Apostles, but was brought in by Barnabus who had only been one of the 70 Disciples (relatively nobody when it is considered that the Church was later to give him the majority of books in the New Testament -- 14 against 13). The Last Page of one of the gospels states that much is left unsaid. So you shouldn't be surprised that not all is said.

But look at what is said. The Angels bring praise to Mary at the Inception and at the Birth -- they Serenade Her. And we have Christ's own Testimony for His Mother -- when some lady in the crowd called out "Blessed be the Womb that bore Thee", Christ quickly rejoined that "She should rather be blessed for Her obedience to God". Then, you can't find a single sin attributed to Her. to find a Heroine of Penance and Atonement the Bible must go to a Mary of Magdaleine.

But to really know Mary you really have to look at hagiography. She has been a constant presence to The Church. You are a woman (I know that now) -- you have a sense for the Patriarchal Society within which Christianity formed. It HAD TO BE A MIRACLE for those Patriarchs to concede Mary's Leadership in the Church. Yes, Yes -- Jesus, Jesus. But Jesus wasn't appearing to anybody. Mary was. Mary is the Victory of Truth over wishful thinking. Jesus would apparently come again only on the Day of Judgement, just like He said. It would be Mary who would guide the wayward Church.

The Lord did appear in Apparition recently though -- about a 100 years ago. He wanted His Mother to be honored for being "Sorrowful" as well as "Immaculate" -- that God had made Her Immaculate, but that Her constant Sorrow for the Sake of Christ and the Church was of Her own doing. "Sorrowful and Immaculate Heart of Mary".

What really must make Her Sorrowful is the division of the Church away from Judaism. You must know of the Prayer Mary prays with Elizabeth during her Visit. The Catholics call that Prayer "The Magnificat" -- it is a Prayer celebrating the Promise coming to the People of Israel, the exaltation of the Poor and the humbling of the Rich. That Poor Girl -- you can read that Prayer today and realize that She got nothing. Paul saw to it that the Jews would be screwed out of their Christianity, and without the healthy presence of a valid religious influence Judaism has come more to represent Exploitation than Social Justice, just as Protestantism is attempting to imitiate their vice by making Greed a Virtue.

So, Mary was sinless. Is Sinless. As a woman you should have more compassion for Her. Honestly, slapping Her in the Face with a typical Protestant reflex shows that you are a great team player -- but it says something about which team you are on. We are talking about Jesus Christ's Mommy. Maybe if it was Paul's mother, you would have some respect.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 26 2003,12:00)]Leo from all your readings you make it sound like Catholism is the greatest thing in the world. Not only that you openly attack every christian by saying that we are going to hell because we believe in the teachings of paul.

maybe if you spent half the time that you did on these boards trying to change something, maybe people would listen to you, but as far as i have read/heard from you, i have been hearing from many of my catholic relatives.

This is not an attack on you, at all, but look at your motives here, is it to glorify Christ, or to make ever dirty prot( as you so lovingly put it) feel bad? You forget that Christ said to love EVERYONE, no matter what, love the person, hate the sin. You may not agree with us but show the Christ like love if you are truely a Christian ( yes catholism is Christianity).
Dear Lion,

you say you are going to be a scholar and go for your doctorate. So you should mind if we expect you to be able to make some intellectual distinctions.

You say Jesus loves everybody. Fine assertion. Maybe you can find a quote from Paul to support that. But in the Gospels we find that Christ promises to be Judge. He promises Hellfire to those who do not bear fruit. This is more intended to inspire Fear of the Lord.

Anyway, now, look at what we have, Mr. Scholar. We have Christ promising Hell to those who don't bear fruit. I know this. Now what is my duty? Well, certainly I should run out into the streets and Yell "Repent and do Righteousness for the End is Near". Clearly the correct thing to do, in addition to my personal Penances and Charities.

But I meet opposition! The Church of Paul silences me with their Popular Doctrine that NO FRUIT IS REQUIRED, ONLY FAITH IN JESUS. Well, I think, this must be a Satanic trick, but not relying on myself I consult the Bible. Christ says that you will no a False Prophet from his fruits and that he would be a Wolf in Sheeps Clothing. Paul -- is he not a Christian Killer. We have it right from the Book of Acts. Paul was a Christian Killer. Bad Fruits? Book of Acts -- follow it through -- Paul fighting with the Jews, Paul fighting with Barnabus, Paul fighting with Mark, Paul fighting with all the Apostles, Paul boasting of a Life of total sinlessness to the High Priest, Paul changing his story about the Conversion, the Disciples reporting Paul's teaching separate doctrines. Luke documents the first Schism in the Church where Paul breaks away with a separate Gentile Church. Christ had asked for Unity, no? Did He get it? No!

Now, Mr. Scholar, do you know much of World History. Even Church History. What major Schism or Heresy has not been traced to a disagreement between the Gospels and the Letters of Paul? Righteousness vs Faith Alone. Real Eucharist vs. Symbolic. Kingdom of God vs. State Supremacy. Moral Responsibility vs. Predestination. It is all Jesus on one side and Paul on the other.

Okay, Mr. Scholar, where are we now? Christ has promised to send all those to hell who bear no fruit, and I have every reason to suspect that the Person, Paul, who is telling every Christian in the World that they can rest easy on Faith alone, is in fact deceiving them with malicious intent, as prophecized by Christ.

That is what I think and I have given you my reasons, in brief, for why I think it. In good conscience do you really think I have any other choice but to say exactly what I am saying. What? I should be loving and guard everyone against hurt feeling? THE DOCTRINES THEY NOW FOLLOW WILL GUARANTEE THEM HELL! Now is not the time for tact.

And I believe that we only have 9 years left. This is a Last Warning. I really believe that Christ set up the Church to grow both the Wheat and the Tares -- to provide both the Wide Way and the Narrow Way. Christ does not want to Maximize the Number of those who will go to Heaven -- He only want to implement a mechanism for Sorting the Good from the Bad. And, Mr. Scholar, you would need to explain why and how the Perfect Mechanism for sorting the Sheep from the Goats isn't that those who follow the Antichrist Paul will go to Hell, while those who followed the minority books of the New Testament -- those of Christ and the Real Apostles will go to Heaven.

I can see your intellectual reluctance to accept what I am saying. It would be cataclysmic to your World View, no?

There are other World Views involved, though. Do you know that it is the Protestant insistance on the Rejection of Righteousness, via Paul, that causes the Islamic World to call America The Great Satan. Now, do you think that the Real Doctrine of Christ would so positively scandalize a righteous and sincere people? You may have grown up with Protestantism and so the Heresy is not apparent to you. But other Respectable Religions are shocked at the licentiousness of Paulian Doctrine and are amazed with wonder that you can't see the Satanic nature of it patently on its Face. Religion supports Righteousness. Satanism supports libertinism, for which there is no other description for Paul.

Now, if you are really a scholar, you will not just haze over everything I have just presented to you. These are real distinctions which require real thought. But, I probably am overestimating the situation -- all these Protestant Preachers must be coming off of some idiot conveyor belt somewhere. Now, that would be a job in Hell -- being a Full Professor of Theology at a Protestant Bible College. Looking at the Right Information day in and day out all their lives, and still coming to the wrong conclusions -- it simply is not possible. They have to know they are lying after a certain point. So will you.
 
Why don't we go over some generalized forum etiquette?
a. While your posts are not specifically flaming, some people might construe it as. While I have a extremely wide range of being able to tolerate insults to my group, being called a prot isn't a good thing. Are you caucasian? What if I callled you white trash? Black? what if I called you a nigger? I'm quite sure those names woiuldn't be appealing.

b. While not trolling, you do know that most of us are protestant, right? Is this ploy to incite anger in us?

Anyhoo, on topic.

I could pull the old "you believe what you want" trick, but that's lame.

Here's what I think:

Mary: Mary was human. No? Original Sin? Humans are sinful beigns. She might be this wonderful fantabulous person, but still a person. Jesus was God as human.

Holy Spirit: What exactly is your point WRT this? I believe that it's real, that we can be filled, that it guides us, that it does all sorts of good stuff. *shrug*

Paul: One of our books is right. Revelations has that verse regarding adding and subtracting. Eastern Orthodox has their book, Ethiopian/Coptic Orthodox has theirs, we Protestants have ours, Catholics have theirs (what books are in yours?) Paul's letters, IMO, are there for a reason. He isn't perfect.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (pieman3141 @ Oct. 26 2003,3:42)]Why don't we go over some generalized forum etiquette?
a. While your posts are not specifically flaming, some people might construe it as. While I have a extremely wide range of being able to tolerate insults to my group, being called a prot isn't a good thing. Are you caucasian? What if I callled you white trash? Black? what if I called you a nigger? I'm quite sure those names woiuldn't be appealing.

b. While not trolling, you do know that most of us are protestant, right? Is this ploy to incite anger in us?

Anyhoo, on topic.

I could pull the old "you believe what you want" trick, but that's lame.

Here's what I think:

Mary: Mary was human. No? Original Sin? Humans are sinful beigns. She might be this wonderful fantabulous person, but still a person. Jesus was God as human.

Holy Spirit: What exactly is your point WRT this? I believe that it's real, that we can be filled, that it guides us, that it does all sorts of good stuff.  *shrug*

Paul: One of our books is right. Revelations has that verse regarding adding and subtracting. Eastern Orthodox has their book, Ethiopian/Coptic Orthodox has theirs, we Protestants have ours, Catholics have theirs (what books are in yours?) Paul's letters, IMO, are there for a reason. He isn't perfect.

Dear Pieman,

Oh good, an etiquette lesson.  You are only the fifth person to be condescending today.  Your problem, Miss Manners, is that I call you Prot.  Well, it was a humongous pain in the butt to type out Protestant 200 times a day, and so I went to Prot – you are the first person to complain.  That gives you the prig award.  You can guess what prig is short for.

And yes, I know you are all Prots.  That is why I am writing in.  You are all diving at terminal velocity strait into hell and I want only to have you all veer off before it is too late.  I’m trying to be helpful. But you want to know a little secret?  If you all – every single one – go to hell in blazes – with all the writhing in pain and knashing of teeth, I’ll be genuinely happy.  You know why?  Because of all the condescending crap I had to take off you people when I was only trying to help!

Now, to topic.  You think that any ordinary slut could have been The Mother of God.  Well, why is that ridiculous?  You already believe that God can be born as Man.  But you bulk on the notion that God can be born of a Perfect Sinless Human.  Why?  Adam and Eve were Perfect and Sinless – before they sinned.  Mary is simply an Archetype of the Human Being before The Curse.

Now, why don’t you believe it.  It is because you are a Prot.  Prots have decided to reject all Divine Revelation because all Divine Revelation points to a Divine Demand for Good Works, Penance and Righteousness.  You Prots prefer the Doctrines of Paul the Antichrist which frankly reject all Religious Duties.  So, don’t pretend you are being Reasonable or Religious.  You are content following the Wide and Easy Way that leads to Destruction, and you give a load of crap to anyone who would wish to do you a favor and point you in the better direction.  You will get what you deserve – but only if every pore and cell in your body is screaming with fiery pain – and that will be too good for you.  Now go and be condescending to someone else.  Maybe you can pick on a nun.
 
For God so loved the World that He sent His only son to die Brief John 3:16

Yes Jesus does talk about fruit and beattitudes, Yes he also talks about love above all else. As far as predistination goes that is a long and heated debated with in our movement. my take is God knows what I will do, He knows what is best for me, He will let me go my own way, but He does give me clues, from His Word, and hints, Holy Spirit on what i should do. Example If i wanted to be a male prositute, well that isnt very Biblical so i do not think i could say i was doing God's will if i did that, where as learning to be a man of God and to teach His Word, that sounds like something He may like.
World View, World View?? how many 18yr olds do you know that have even been outside of America besides a missions trip? how many 18yr olds do you know that have traveled the world, old man, thats what you say you are, i have seen the world, i have been all over South/Central America, Europe, East Asia, Northern Africa. trust me i have a pretty good world view. i may not like muslims because of their religion, but in Europe i still show them the respect that they deserve for being a human being and a child of God.


With elaquent words i have told many of my class men, and others at this college that they are a bunch of ignorant Bible thumpers and have no place in the real ministry. did i say that directly no, i used tact and told them. there is a way to get your message out with out sounding so biggitous.

I personally am a protestant, i love the teachings of Paul, but when i plant my church, it will be based off of Christ, and the first twelve chapters of Acts with the First Christian Church of Jerusalem as the example that i try to mirror.

As far as i have read with Paul, he does never say that it only takes faith, he always says the primary thing is faith, and if you have true faith then the works will come naturally. no my salvation is not free, yes there have been alot of preachers who have taught that and other idiotic things, but does that mean i or the people here are like that, well i do not know about the others but i am not. Just because i know of a few Catholic bishops and Priest who get drunk on sunday during mass, does it mean that they all do?? NO, so try to stop generalizing and adapt to your audience, your man of the day Paul did, read your favorite book of Acts and you will see that.
 
Dude Leo watch the langauge if you claim to be such an educated man you think you could word your post a little bit better and sound a little more educated than the drug dealer around the corner.


Meh the Pharisee and Sadducees where religious look where it got them.
 
we never called Mary a slut, she was a virgin like the Bible said. But she had kids with Joseph (in marriage) which though marriage that's okay.
 
did I say Mary was a slut, aso you said? I said she was human. And I said that humans are sinful. Sinful != slut.

* != is shorthand for not equal to. Programming lesson for the day.
smile.gif


And I am not being condescending. I think of you as a peer. Forum etiquette is just something I'm used to in the forums I hang out at.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 26 2003,7:34)]For God so loved the World that He sent His only son to die Brief John 3:16

Yes Jesus does talk about fruit and beattitudes, Yes he also talks about love above all else. As far as predistination goes that is a long and heated debated with in our movement. my take is God knows what I will do, He knows what is best for me, He will let me go my own way, but He does give me clues, from His Word, and hints, Holy Spirit on what i should do. Example If i wanted to be a male prositute, well that isnt very Biblical so i do not think i could say i was doing God's will if i did that, where as learning to be a man of God and to teach His Word, that sounds like something He may like.
World View, World View?? how many 18yr olds do you know that have even been outside of America besides a missions trip? how many 18yr olds do you know that have traveled the world, old man, thats what you say you are, i have seen the world, i have been all over South/Central America, Europe, East Asia, Northern Africa. trust me i have a pretty good world view. i may not like muslims because of their religion, but in Europe i still show them the respect that they deserve for being a human being and a child of God.


With elaquent words i have told many of my class men, and others at this college that they are a bunch of ignorant Bible thumpers and have no place in the real ministry. did i say that directly no, i used tact and told them. there is a way to get your message out with out sounding so biggitous.

I personally am a protestant, i love the teachings of Paul, but when i plant my church, it will be based off of Christ, and the first twelve chapters of Acts with the First Christian Church of Jerusalem as the example that i try to mirror.

As far as i have read with Paul, he does never say that it only takes faith, he always says the primary thing is faith, and if you have true faith then the works will come naturally. no my salvation is not free, yes there have been alot of preachers who have taught that and other idiotic things, but does that mean i or the people here are like that, well i do not know about the others but i am not. Just because i know of a few Catholic bishops and Priest who get drunk on sunday during mass, does it mean that they all do?? NO, so try to stop generalizing and adapt to your audience, your man of the day Paul did, read your favorite book of Acts and you will see that.
Dear Lion,

About Paul.  Everyone makes the same mistake about giving Paul the benefit of the doubt.  But look at the teachings.  Catholics argue that Prots are taking Paul out of context.  I would love to believe it.  But it isn't an isolated verse or two.  He presents page after page of argument to the effect that Faith is Everything and Righteousness is Nothing.  He ridicules the Apostles for their Righteousness.  He has a clear contempt for Goodness.  Now, you "christians" are willing to accept this because Paul puts it in terms of the Infinite Power of the Blood of Christ -- it is an argument that no Christian wants to refute.   But it is refutable.  Unfortunately the Power of the Blood of Christ has not proven to be Infinite -- every generation sees new sins which must be atoned for with new suffering.  This is the message Our Lady brings, and we see it in the Suffering of the Stigmatic Saints.  Christ told us that we would have to share in His Suffering.  "christians" do not want to hear that they too will be crucified and are relieved when Paul convinces them that Jesus was apparently only kidding about all that.

yesterday my choir lady friends told me that Seminary Schools have whole departments dedicated to paul "because he is so hard to understand".  I said that Paul is only hard to understand in the context of also believing the Christ was correct in what He said and that the remaider of Catholic doctrine is correct.  It is like making sense of Ptolemaic Astronomy in which it can be 'demonstrated' that the Earth is in the Middle of the Universe by constructing models with a mesh of clockworks with primary wheels, retrograde wheels and various pivots -- it all becomes un-naturally complicated.   But when you admit that the Sun is in the Center it all becomes obvious.  So it is with Paul.  Once you admit that he is the Antichrist, it all suddenly falls into place.  You shouldn't need an entire department and two years of study to ascertain that Paul was really a Catholic.  And it sounds kind of empty when you say that if only every Heretic in History had gone to 2 additional years of seminary, then we wouldn't have had the Schisms and the Satanic Doctrines that the World is now buried in.  "You will know a Tree by it's Fruit".  If you have to cook the fruit for two years before it becomes edible -- then it is Bad Fruit.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 26 2003,7:37)]Dude Leo watch the langauge if you claim to be such an educated man you think you could word your post a little bit better and sound a little more educated than the drug dealer around the corner.


Meh the Pharisee and Sadducees where religious look where it got them.
Dear Lion,

yes I am an educated man. I am also older than 18.

I've been in the Peace Corps, Army, homeless, on the road. I did okay at University in a haze of drug smoke -- but in the Military Schools they are still looking up at the stratospheric academic records I set.

Anyway, the language I have learned I have earned. It's you who should watch your mouth. Never heard of having respect for the elderly?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 26 2003,10:53)]we never called Mary a slut, she was a virgin like the Bible said.  But she had kids with Joseph (in marriage) which though marriage that's okay.
Dear CCGR

Oh don't be disingenuous. You run this page. Everytime I refer to the Perpetual Virginity of the Blessed Virgin Mary, does anybody ever just say "Amen". No! Despite my obvious sensitivities and devotions, I have to be treated to a parade of Posts about what an ordinary slut Mary was. Every time. Well, you argue, just because Mary was just like us doesn't make Her a slut, does it?

You cannot pretend to put The Blessed Virgin Mary on your own level. That is what all you Prots do. You pretend that bringing Her down isn't degrading for Her, but it is. If it didn't matter, then Christ could have been born a generation after Abraham -- but, what, it must have taken several thousand years and generation after generation before a Family was even pure enough to accept the Immaculate Conception. but you Prots insist on beating Our Lady down to your level.

Pride Pride Pride. "No! We never called Her a Slut... it is only She's no better than I am! " Well, if you make it through the Day of Judgment, which will only be at Her intercession, then you will see with your own eyes that it will be a Million Angels singing Praise to Her, and it will be you on your knees. But until then it makes all the Angels in Heaven delighted that you at least concede that Our Lady isn't a slut.
 
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