New Raiding, Ver. 80

As of currently Theros is my main and he's a tank. My issue is and always has been dial-up and as such I'm limited to the 10mans. There's no real point in me even trying 25s, I know the result, connect, dc, connect, dc...etc

How will this effect myself per-said raiding. I stated this in another post about the 10mans. Will I be excluded from 10man guild raids as a Tank because I can't raid the 25s and therefore will be geared but non-viable for 25s? If this is the case I'll level Alhana for dps and do pug's for 10s on Theros.

I'm not trying to stir things but like Flame was saying not everyone can raid 2-3nights a week or in my case 25s.
 
Gods_Peon said:
DKP is not without its issues. With DKP, its harder to bring people into a raid for the first time amongst a group that has been together for awhile. It is very daunting to join a raid where everybody has 250 dkp and you have none or just the starting amount. And if it were not for that person, said raid would not happen, how do you expect them to walk into a raid with no expectation of compensation. The phsycological factor of being the bottom man on the totem pole is huge.
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Patience is FTW.

DKP, like mordos said does accumulate faster that you think, especially when people bid their DKP instead of spending set amounts on items and the winner being who has the most DKP (granted I don't know how you guys will use DKP).

From my time raiding in WoW with you guys and others I really enjoyed DKP; it helps people want to raid and I believe it makes them more appreciative of their gear and the group they run with.

Have faith, the raid leaders will work it out. :)
 
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I think you are referring to "zero-sum" dkp which is pretty FTW. It addresses the "hoarding" issue nicely.
 
Zero-Sum does not address hoarding. Hoarding will have to be addressed by Raid Leaders and officers most likely on a case by case basis. Sometimes crafted, pvp, vendor and quest rewards can be better then the dungeon drops and would have to be considered by player to see if they are hoarding.
 
Gods_Peon said:
DKP is not without its issues. With DKP, its harder to bring people into a raid for the first time amongst a group that has been together for awhile. It is very daunting to join a raid where everybody has 250 dkp and you have none or just the starting amount. And if it were not for that person, said raid would not happen, how do you expect them to walk into a raid with no expectation of compensation. The phsycological factor of being the bottom man on the totem pole is huge.
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While you make a good point, the raider/member rank issue had its problems too. In the raider status, a member would always have to pass to the raider....which is less motivation to show up as its part of policy. Trial and error will prove what's best for this guild, so let's give it a shot! :D
 
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Plankeye said:
Zero-Sum does not address hoarding. Hoarding will have to be addressed by Raid Leaders and officers most likely on a case by case basis. Sometimes crafted, pvp, vendor and quest rewards can be better then the dungeon drops and would have to be considered by player to see if they are hoarding.
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I can't remember the name of the modification of zerosum but it something along the lines that when you "buy" an item you go to zero and all your points are redistrubted amongst the members, but then the problem of rot happens.

Blarg... I'll leave it to the professionals. I'm happy with whatever system.
 
ZeroSum is where someone bids the item and the amount is was bought for is devided amoungs the number of members in the raid.
 
Make no mistake, all DKP systems reward attendance. That is their point. They are designed to have a memory. Finding a solution that is easy to manage, easy to understand by the folks wanting to raid and fair is the goal.

I am not so sure hoarding is a big issue. People who hoard have to pass on gear to do it which puts gear in the hands of those with less DKP. There are checks too in the game that will impact those that hoard. For instance gear checks like resists, health and dps. Someone holds off on gear upgrades long enough and they will fall under the raiding curve and be left behind on new content.

I think someone mentioned it earlier but badges also ensure gear upgrades happen for everyone.

For those in the casual end, you will get upgrades. Case in point is our existing Zero-Sum DKP system used during MC days. I was a casual raider then and only attended 32% of all events and snagged 7 drops. Here are some numbers:

Sazul - Attended 353 raid events - Obtained 17 items - Chance to get an item per event 4.8%
Sandric - Attended 154 raid events - Obtained 7 Items - Chance to get an item per event 4.5%
Tebran - Attended 35 raid events - Obtained 2 items - Chance to get an item per event 5.7%

If you take out the exceptions like Goblit, Avesther, Young and Quantum who came in to MC geared to begin with that 4-6% average chance is pretty common.
 
I miss MC days and checking my DKP after every raid. (and every day, multiple times)

I still remember like it was yesterday, going to the first Redeemed MC run and a Lawbringer bracer dropped. Sandric passed because he already had it from a different guild's run and I was the only other Pally! This was the night before we started DKP in Redeemed so I got free Epics!! wooot! Was my first Epic ever and unless Jad disenchanted it, it is still in Mirakle's bank.
 
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Would it be possible gain DKP by farming mats for the guild? I know that with school and what all I will not be able to raid very often, but I will have the time to farm mats and hopefully help in other ways. If someone helps in that way, is there a possibility of gaining DKP?
 
Hmm the only thing that gets me, I'm not too fond of the phrase "If said person devotes the time to show up they should be rewarded over someone who is not as frequent". At least in my personal experiences I have certain obligations that cannot be avoided. Namely my job, but you may think well too bad but of my two nights off a week I made it a point to be online and ready to contribute under normal circumstances. So for my particular schedule I was putting out as much effort to attend as I could and I know there are plenty of people that do have the flexibility time-wise but choose not to bother attending. Basically I just think given a schedule like mine the effort should still be rewarded because I'm giving the little time I do have to contribute. Not that I'm bashing DKP I just wonder if there is a way to factor something like that in as well.
 
Did you last 2 posters not read Sandrics post? You can get the same % of getting an item as everyone else regardless if you attend 350 events or 35.
 
Lufia, did you get a chance to read my post? It shows drop wins were equal in chance despite attendance which keeps it fair. Reward was the wrong word to use. DKP does give priority to those with higher attendance. Everyone benefits equally overtime in a DKP system.
 
Lufia said:
Hmm the only thing that gets me, I'm not too fond of the phrase "If said person devotes the time to show up they should be rewarded over someone who is not as frequent". At least in my personal experiences I have certain obligations that cannot be avoided. Namely my job, but you may think well too bad but of my two nights off a week I made it a point to be online and ready to contribute under normal circumstances. So for my particular schedule I was putting out as much effort to attend as I could and I know there are plenty of people that do have the flexibility time-wise but choose not to bother attending. Basically I just think given a schedule like mine the effort should still be rewarded because I'm giving the little time I do have to contribute. Not that I'm bashing DKP I just wonder if there is a way to factor something like that in as well.
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DKP in a sense is a currency. The more you raid (work) the more DKP you accrue (get paid). So, yes, the more someone shows up to raid the more DKP they will have to spend.

On the other hand, other people are getting the gear you would be competing for. So when you show up to raid, everyone else already has it.

If you raid less than everyone else, you will have less DKP than they will. But it is not always a bad thing.

Have faith, it is a very fair system.
 
What were my numbers Sandric? I miss checking DKP every day and planning what bosses we would probably down, what I needed from them, etc and competing with Mav to see who could catch up to Cass with full tier1 first lol
 
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What were my numbers Sandric? I miss checking DKP every day and planning what bosses we would probably down, what I needed from them, etc and competing with Mav to see who could catch up to Cass with full tier1 first lol
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You were involved in 269 events and got 15 items = 5.6%
 
I'm cool with whatever we decide to do (even Loot Council). I just don't want to see things rot.
 
Mcfierce - main heals, off dps
Angryson - tank then dps

I get the feeling that healers are in shorter demand than tanks...at least at the time being so Mcfierce is my declared main. I love tanking and will step in when needed but i feel that this is the best choice at the moment. If i need to switch back to my tank then i will go thru the appropriate channels and steps. i'll worry about declaring a 3rd toon when i get there. still tossed up between my DK and spriest

Derek - Angry
 
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