Huge mistake with origins of Catholicism.

The verses I noted in my earlier post on page 11; Paul's discourse on the old and new self; Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Spurgeon, and Henry's interpretations of those verses and others. I don't really have the time to bust out the concordance and give every reference, but those are decent enough starting places. Wesley also discusses the differentiation between sin-noun and sin-verb in his sermons and exegetical work with regards to entire sanctification (a nice few Saturdays I spent in the library reading all that stuff
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what year are you tasty? just wondering i only have one semister done so far, so i really have not had to do much studing at all mostly some basics, and an indepth look at the Pentatuech (teachers first sem teaching so it was almost straight from the book) and the book of Acts.
 
I've been here for 2 years, but my advantage is that I came in with 18 credits already, so I'm technically a first-semester junior this term. Basically I've only had one semester where I haven't been taking Bible, theology, and church history classes. Oh the glories of being a ministerial major at a liberal arts Christian school
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. Man I can't wait for seminary
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arg liberal arts.... LOL

I am all about Ozark Christian College or Florida Christians college, then maybe to Lincoln for my seminary and trinity for a doc.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Ephesians 2:3
John 3:5-6
Psalm 51:5 especially - "Indeed, I was born guilty, a sinner when my mother conceived me."
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Looks to me like ephesians 2:3 is referring to children, not babies. However the other 2 verses do say we are indeed born into sin. I don't think the fact that they are born into sin would condemn them, but the rejection of God. I would side with vanase on this one, I don't see a just God sending a baby to hell, I would like to think I know God better than that. Sending a baby to hell isn't consistent with the character of Jesus. Everyone deserves hell. How about this: if two Christians have a baby, is the baby born into sin? The two christians are spotless/perfect because of Jesus' blood. How could sin then be born into this baby? Psalm was written before someone could become perfect. However this still leaves the question of John 3:5-6... I guess it doesn't really matter, our argument doesn't really change things, but it would be nice to know exactly how it works becuase my sister died as a baby.
 
Even if Jesus is all loving, God cannot look upon sin, and if we are born into sin, God cannot look upon them.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The two christians are spotless/perfect because of Jesus' blood.
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We may have God in us, but is impossible for us to not sin. Therefor a baby could not be born perfect.
 
Very intresting premise, Master, though I'm sure I can already tell you what everyone else around here might think :-x
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Lion -- You're missing the point behind me referring Genesis 18. It reveals God's nature to have grace, which is relevent. (When I say context, I was speaking of the Scripture context, not just ripping that verse out to stand alone.)

Interesting you mention Abraham's prayers and pleas to God to save Lot being the reason he was "saved".

I think I remember having Someone do the same thing for us...Huh...Wonder who that could be.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Even if Jesus is all loving, God cannot look upon sin, and if we are born into sin, God cannot look upon them.
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Hmm, I'm pretty sure I remember Jesus forgiving the prostitue, eating with the tax collectors, teaching the disciples and much more with his eyes open...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]We may have God in us, but is impossible for us to not sin. Therefor a baby could not be born perfect.
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Of course we all sin, that was beside the point. If God says I am now perfect and without sin because of Jesus' blood, are you going to argue with Him? I'm perfect now (blameless) all because of Jesus, and if you are a christian, you too are without any sin.
 
personally i feel this topic should be locked/deleted because all it seems to be doing is causing strife between brothers over a subject that really should not be causing strife.

I will reiterate my point i am niether for nor against babies going to heaven Biblicly

Now then personally i think they would. Although i have no Solid Biblical backing for that belief.
 
I have no will left to argue, it's been taken from me.

I admit my defeat, and I don't care anymore.

Blessings to you, brothers.
 
Sorry, I know you all want this discussion to end, but I thought you might want to consider Job. I don't have my Bible at the dek with me so I can't quote chapter and verse, but when Job is despairing of his troubles he cries out that 'it would be better if I had been stillborn then I would be at peace'(very loose quotation,just from memory).Now where would a stillborn baby be at peace but with God in heaven?

Jesus doesn't make us to be without sin-God declares us justified,as in a legal sense,by the merit of Christ's substitutionary sacrifice on our behalf-but we are not sinless in this mortal life.

We are all saved by grace. God can extend that grace to anyone He chooses-babies included.
 
Just a thought to consider, did people in the OT go to heaven when they died or did they go to shoel ( i think that is the right name)
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Mar. 28 2004,3:43)]Just a thought to consider, did people in the OT go to heaven when they died or did they go to shoel ( i think that is the right name)
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I thought it was Sheol.  Not that it matters.

And don't look to Dante for help unless you want a really unpopular answer.  (Hint: he addresses them in The Inferno, not in The Purgatorio or The Paradisio).
 
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