Downing bosses faster

ewoksrule

ewoksrule

Active Member
the art of downing bosses faster

I have been reading more and more on the "all raiders be 350 LW" recently. It is a trend that most progression guilds are using and it honestly makes a lot of sense. Not only does it require everyone to sacrifice something for the greater team, the buff is totally wicked and when every group can keep it up nonstop (by each person taking turn to activate) it makes bosses go down amazingly easier. This is of course talking about the UBER group buff that is Drums of Battle.

It might not be something required to raid but perhaps a requirement of those that wish to have the title "raider" in the guild.

It would certainly be of great use to the guild on many levels. You only need 350LW to actually use the drums as long as someone else 375 can make them for the players.

We could easily farm the mats required to level LW to 350 if we had a few skinning events with the whole guild. Have all the raiders first spec skinning and go nuts some weekend along with any current skinners. Then once a ton of mats has been collected we all respec to LW and sit around Ironforge grinding LW together. Would be a fun experience if done collectively.

what are your thoughts?
 
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Who are the "Downing Bosses"? Is this a new instance?



srsly everyone have 350 LW? crazy talk.
 
I've been evaluating the benefit of spell haste quite recently and I am currently in the process of getting +12 spell damage gems and epic haste gems.

If you compare the overall benefit Shadow Priest tailor with the Shadowweave set with the badge pants socketing them w/ haste/spd gems and +12spd gems I think the overall benefit for a Shadowweave tailor is phenomenol. Then consider the spell haste boost from the drums every 2 minutes would totally rock.

In theory if you consider it 25 man raid, 5 ppl per group every person with Drums, a 2 minute CD on each of those 5 Drums, actually you would only need 4 Drums to keep 80 haste up the entire time as it lasts 30 seconds, imagine the DPS that could be pumped out.
 
So are we seriously thinking of or requiring everyone to become leather workers?

Although having people be leather workers and having the drums available would be advantagious, I think we should take a graded approach on this.. Requiring every raider in the raid (25 people) to take up leather working is a bit much. doing so would hurt others (i.e. those who are blacksmiths that make BOP craftable items...Tailors who make BOP itmes) many people have the gathering side of their craft to help make it possible for them to get those. If we did do that it would be acceptable for all those who are leather wearers, or those who have just chosen leather working to have it leveled to at least 350 to allow them to use the drums and distribute them (the peeps with the leather working skill) into all of the groups in the raid and rotate the use of the drums.

But before we start talking about Downing bosses faster lets concentrate on getting bosses down.
 
It's just a worthy discussion, I don't think anyone is making decisions on this for the Guild. I know that I have zero authority in that area beyond making a suggestion.

Downing bosses "faster" is a play on words related to the haste buff the drums give. Certainly having potential 40+raid wide DPS buff would be a huge step to getting bosses down in general. As would the Drums of Restoration that give like 20mp5 to the group!

Also anyone who has a certain tradeskill for the great BoP's is doing the right thing. But once they make all the phat crafted items there is no reason they cant drop it for LW. Or the guild could help them with the supplies needed so they can drop the related gathering skill.

Of course we need to keep some people in the professions when they have all the rare/epic recipes but thats just a handful.

Ultimately I think that this is just food for thought for those that are min/maxers in the guild to chew on. It would definitely take the progression to the next step.
 
It does seem like a good idea, but it is a massive endeavor.

I know I have no leverage, but are there other things that need to be improved upon first, other than Drums of Battle (it seems more like a luxury to me)?

Other guilds have gotten further with out it, and with WotLK coming soon, will it be worth it?
 
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So wait... I can make nice head gear with engineering. wear it. drop engineering and then still wear them? I didn't think that was possible.
 
Odale said:
It does seem like a good idea, but it is a massive endeavor.

I know I have no leverage, but are there other things that need to be improved upon first, other than Drums of Battle (it seems more like a luxury to me)?

Other guilds have gotten further with out it, and with WotLK coming soon, will it be worth it?
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That does bring up some good points.

Yes there are other things to improve on as well, but why not do those in addition?

I am sure that many guilds have gone further without drinking pots, buffing with flasks, oils, and food-buffs as well. (I doubt they got any further without paying repair bills...cant avoid that one) The drums buff is perhaps as significant as any one of those items. Maybe there is a point where you stop getting the best prepared you can because other guilds can do it without needing them?

Then with WotLK coming out should anyone prepare anymore for the current game? I mean why spend honor points, arena points, badges, and gold on anything since it is going to be outdated in 3-6-9 months time away?

Leveling tradeskills is really not that massive of a project these days. 1-350 in LW is like what..4 hours? Spread that over a weeks time and its just like doing your dailies.

I'm bored at work so yeah there is some sarcasm here...lol no offense Odale, just playing around/debating with you cause you took the time to post in the thread ;-)
 
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ewoksrule said:
It's just a worthy discussion, I don't think anyone is making decisions on this for the Guild. I know that I have zero authority in that area beyond making a suggestion.

Downing bosses "faster" is a play on words related to the haste buff the drums give. Certainly having potential 40+raid wide DPS buff would be a huge step to getting bosses down in general. As would the Drums of Restoration that give like 20mp5 to the group!

Also anyone who has a certain tradeskill for the great BoP's is doing the right thing. But once they make all the phat crafted items there is no reason they cant drop it for LW. Or the guild could help them with the supplies needed so they can drop the related gathering skill.

Of course we need to keep some people in the professions when they have all the rare/epic recipes but thats just a handful.

Ultimately I think that this is just food for thought for those that are min/maxers in the guild to chew on. It would definitely take the progression to the next step.
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Hey We all have say in this guild :D

I see where you are comming from the extra haste would be Awesome.. I as a healer would love to throw out the big heals without the long cast time...

I personally am just a little leary about giving up profeesions that help me and the guild my JC patterns were expensive and others were obtained by grinding rep... plus I like the ability to cut epic gems for our raiders.. My mining on the other hand not only benfits me but the Blacksmiths that make our resist gear for our tanks...ect...

Thats why i said it would be an awesome idea if we took the graded approach.... maybe if we like what we see in raid then start getting peeps to volunteer to switch.. all in all anything that could potentially help us is worth looking at and in a graded approach trying out...
 
Consider also this point also 25 man raids will continue into WotLK, Blizzard with the new 2.4 patch has put a lot of emphasis on haste, whether that will hold true for the expansion remains to be seen. But, currently haste is the new BIG thing with Blizz...here's a real life example...take Gnimish

He has the spell haste offhand from badges plus Icy Veins...now factor in an average ping for me in Kara around 600 low - 900 high...so for simplicity sake 750 average.
Gnimish has roughly 900 spell damage buffed w/ about 9% hit and he's specced 0/43/18 Fire mainly with Icy Veins. Without any haste except from his offhand I can easily push over 600 dps on a single target now take those same stats and add Icy Veins to that mix which is a 20% casting speed increase for 20 seconds I can easily do 800dps which is massive for me personally factoring in my lag & intermittent delays because of dial-up is HUGE.

Now take those same factors with an 80% increase for 30 seconds I could easily do well over 1k dps.

Okay now back to the 25 man raid situation take one person in each 5man DPS group with Drums who has an average 5 group sustained rating of 800 dps boost it for 30 seconds to 1k dps.

Now how does that play in a 5 minute boss fight...
No Haste
800x60(seconds) = 24000 a minute x 5(min) = 120000 damage over 5 minute per group.

Compare to with Haste
Haste
1000x60(secs) = 60000 a minute which in a 5 minute fight you can use Drums twice.

Then it's back to 800x60 = 24000 x 4 min = 96000 + 60000(1 minute at 1k dps) = 156000 in 5 min vs. 120000(no haste) so effectively 1 minute of haste correalates into 36000 damage.

So in summation how many fight have you been in where that little extra boost on a 2% Boss where we wiped would have resulted in a BiG WIN!!

Wooootttt!!!
 
I am sure that Blizzard did not make these drums with the intentions that entire guilds would mandate their use. Is it good that they can? Sure, but is it worth dropping another profession like Herbalism or Mining? Those two can make loads of money and requires little time to level and turn into gold.

If I still played I would not drop Odd's professions: Tailoring and JC'ing - he is 375 in both. But I would suggest requiring those people with no professions or one profession lower than 200 or so to pick it up. If someone took the time to level herbalism, chances are that they are an Alchemist too; if it's mining, chances are those ores go to BSing, WCing, ACing or to JCing. Maybe you can make an alt fabricate them for the guild.

I would not be too pleased if someone told me that my JCing is only to make personal money and the guild is expecting me to drop it for the good of the team. I would seriously consider leaving the guild, there are plenty other progression guilds on Stonemaul that don't require that.

:p
 
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That's another good reason that I did not think of.

Now you've made these people drop a profession and the Drums are now much less useful.
 
Odale said:
I would not be too pleased if someone told me that my JCing is only to make personal money and the guild is expecting me to drop it for the good of the team. I would seriously consider leaving the guild, there are plenty other progression guilds on Stonemaul that don't require that.
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Well with that selfish and pessimistic attitude you would fit in well with those guilds =P j/k
 
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all jokes aside, it was a good post and suggestion Indy. I don't want to drop engineering if I don't have to, but if thats what it takes to raid... sure thing. I'll let the class and raid leaders figure it out.
 
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