Catholic Miracles

[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 12 2003,8:51)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Medjai @ Oct. 12 2003,9:20)]It appears that Adelpit is stumped, I find it hillarious that Leo accomplished it so easily. Kudos for that Leo!

Of course I am sure he will find the answer eventually through the use of Google, but he should have known this off the top of his head, being divinely inspired and all. So, it appears he is "silly" as Leo put it.

CGGR wrote, "
Please back this up scripturally.  And I mean the Word of God, not something a pope said or wrote."

Considering that many Catholics believe the word of the Pope to be divine, it is entirely fair for him to use the Pope's words when speaking of his beliefs.
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Good point, Medjai. I guess this would bring about a debate over the authority of the pope =D

I have a question, Leo, just out of curiosity. Has Mary ever appeared to you, or have you ever seen any of the places she has performed miracles, such as Fatima or that bank in Florida?
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Dear Timor,

No, I haven't been to any of the Big Shrines. My Catholicism is relatively recent and I lost a fortune in the collapse of the Tech Stocks and so don't have the money to do all the globe trotting I used to do. My Daughter is about to go to Medical School, and so what is left over after cat food goes to her.

I have never had a "waking" vision of Our Lady. But I have had many Dreams in which a Goddess, A Prophetess, or even just a Young Girl would lead me toward My Destiny and tell me things to remember. Who else could it have been?
 
Oh, ok. Well, I hope someday you will get to visit some of those sites.

And, regarding who will "still be atheist", I will remain an atheist until sufficient proof for God can be given. At the moment, I see no possible way for this done. That does not mean I leave no room for the possibility, but that at the moment, I really have yet to see a sufficient argument or defense of theism. *shrug*
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 12 2003,10:47)]Oh, ok. Well, I hope someday you will get to visit some of those sites.

And, regarding who will "still be atheist", I will remain an atheist until sufficient proof for God can be given. At the moment, I see no possible way for this done. That does not mean I leave no room for the possibility, but that at the moment, I really have yet to see a sufficient argument or defense of theism. *shrug*
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How do you explain Fatima?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Leo Volont @ Oct. 13 2003,3:06)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 12 2003,10:47)]Oh, ok. Well, I hope someday you will get to visit some of those sites.

And, regarding who will "still be atheist", I will remain an atheist until sufficient proof for God can be given. At the moment, I see no possible way for this done. That does not mean I leave no room for the possibility, but that at the moment, I really have yet to see a sufficient argument or defense of theism. *shrug*
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How do you explain Fatima?
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If you want a long and researched answer, you will have to wait. The thing is, as an atheist, I really see no possibility for the existance of god (so far), and thus I see no way for miracles to occur. Furthermore, even if it could be established that a deity existed, it would be un-freakin-believably hard to convince me that it is the Christian god. It's just not going to happen, because I've learned so much and see so much against it. Fatima would be a miracle of Fatima, the mother of Jesus, the Christian god. Therefore, logically, if I have already logically established that the Christian god does not exist, it follows that Fatima did not happen/can be explained in a different fashion.

As I said, if you really want me to do some hardcore research, I suppose it wouldn't hurt.

BTW, my "excuse" doesn't work for "Prots".
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Oct. 13 2003,2:34)]maybe a demon would show you.....
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.....?

All you're doing is being antagonistic. Very unbecoming of a Christian. I'm not looking for a fight or for enemies, just for intelligent discussions. Apparently, you seem incapable of the latter, and so bring about the former.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I have never had a "waking" vision of Our Lady. But I have had many Dreams in which a Goddess, A Prophetess, or even just a Young Girl would lead me toward My Destiny and tell me things to remember. Who else could it have been?
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Oh, I don't know...maybe a Demon
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? Seriously lol, you got to be kidding me.

Cory
 
Why, Cory? Numerous times in the Bible has God used dreams to communicate. Why do you so quickly discount his dreams?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 13 2003,4:17)]Why, Cory? Numerous times in the Bible has God used dreams to communicate. Why do you so quickly discount his dreams?
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(Not replying for Thad, Donkey of Judah, or anyone else, just reflecting my experience.)

See, God no longer communicates directly through dreams. He speaks to your heart.

There are some exceptions: Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, The Crouches, Rev. Kineson, and Oral Roberts.
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Everything you need to know, it says in the Bible. So, depending on how you want to look at it...you can pretty much prove anything. TV is idolatry...phones are evil...men should grow beards...women should not be ordained...immersion or sprinkling or no baptism necessary (I am NOT taking a stand here as to whether these are true or not, just that some groups find the same book supporting each of these things).
 
True God does work in any Man who comes to him personally. However I believe the oil of anointing for prophecy has not run out. Prophecy does not neccecarily meen knowing the future but really all I ever believed it ment was talking to God and him literally talking back with a audible voice. Although demons can attack you in dreams with false prophecy.
 
The Miraculous Medal

or The Medal of the Immaculate Conception


In 1830 Our Lady appeared to a novice Nun in Paris (Rue de Bac), and gave her a Vision of a Medal that she was to have coined, that would give great graces to those who would wear it. Faith was not required. Faith was a stipulation which Satan would impose. For Our Lady, if you would obey, that would be sufficient.

The Medal was supposed to have been called the Medal of the Immaculate Conception, but word on the street turned it into the Miraculous Medal and it was to stay the Miraculous Medal.

the First Big Legendary Miracle involved a Jewish Atheist in Paris. This was at the height of the French Enlightenment -- the intensity of their Atheism would put these modern atheists to little sister shame. Anyway a Catholic friend had the Jew wear a Miraculous Medal on a dare -- a wager. And so he wore it. They needed to stop at the Cathedral for a business errand and so the Jew wondered into one of the side chappels. That is when his particular miracle occured. The Cathedral melted away. Paris itself melted away. He was standing out in a field in an interview with Our Lady. This experience lead to his conversion. he became a Priest. .... or at least that is how I think it happened. There are plenty of sites for "Miraculous Medal". My point is that Faith is unimportant as long as we have obedience. That man put a Miraculous Medal around his neck and all the rest was simply as promised.

We may wonder what empowers The Miraculous Medal -- or more generally, on what capital does Our Lady draw from to bestow us This Grace? Well, I think the answer here has to do with Penance and the Blood of Martyrs. Shortly after our Young Nun proposed the Medal there was a revolution in France and many Catholics were tortured and murdered. The Church has from its morbid experience come to the cynical conclusion that 'the Church grows from the Blood of the Martyrs'. But, even without blood flowing like a river in the streets, there is some Penance being done in the Prayer and quiet Atonement of millions of Catholics, and what we lose in sheer intensity may be made up by such seemingly shallow effort, but over a very large expance, as quantity hopes to make up for quality. Afterall, it should not be futile to hope that a hundred million Rosaries might equal the murder of a priest or the outrage of a Nun.

So, find a little Catholic Bookstore and purchase a tin Miraculous Medal for a few dollars and wear it around you neck. Then you may benefit by the Prayers of millions of Catholics as Our Lady channells to you the Merits thereof. If you are not so impressed by the results... well, with the general skepticism in this day and Age, foisted by both Protestants and Atheists, Our Lady doesn't have the funds of Penance She might used to have had.
 
ok I think I have this all figured out now. You say we are Paul followers, and I guess that makes Catholics Mary followers. Fair enough?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 16 2003,8:29)]ok I think I have this all figured out now.  You say we are Paul followers, and I guess that makes Catholics Mary followers.  Fair enough?
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Good point.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Oct. 16 2003,9:11)]but as long as Jesus is leading us all we should have that in common no?
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If you are commiting idolotry Yeshua is not your leader. This post is directed to no person or group but to everyone. Check what you are doing. Are you worshipping anyone/thing other then Yeshua? If so then you are not truely following the Bible.
 
Are we idolizing? No we are not. We follow Christ, and we listen to the teachings of those deemed close to Christ from their words and their deeds. However, for Paul, all we can be satisfied is with words. As for Mary, supposedly all we can be satisfied with is action and "appearances" to Catholics. Has Mary ever appeared to a non-Catholic and the heathen has obeyed her explicitly and thus "found God?"
 
Ultima, Leo makes that claim in his post - he says an atheist wore the medal and was converted by a Marian vision.

Anyways, I think you guys (Prots and Leo) need to decide on acceptable definitions for things such as worship and idolize.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (timor @ Oct. 17 2003,4:27)]Ultima, Leo makes that claim in his post - he says an atheist wore the medal and was converted by a Marian vision.

Anyways, I think you guys (Prots and Leo) need to decide on acceptable definitions for things such as worship and idolize.
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Ok how about this. If you worship or rever anyone else but God you are commiting idolotry. Not to say you cant respect others. Those are God's terms accept them or not it is up to you.
 
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