Atlantis

Well was I atleast ment to say with my post regarding Magic and Miracles is this:

Magic: something a human takes creditt for, something he calls upon, not from God, God specificly tells us to not clain the power but to use it as an testemony of his power.
Miracles: What God calls his power shoen through us to his honor.

The Bible mentions Sorcerors and they'r use of magic, and indeed labels it as foul\unholy.
 
Oh yeah, that whole "Man gets slapped down for standing on his own two feet" thing again.

Here's an interesting pair of facts for you:

1. Islam/Judaism/Christianity have enormous professional theocratic professions who subsist off of tithes and donations.

2. Islam/Judaism/Christianity all profess indepence of thought, action and power to be essentially the worst sins imaginable.


An interesting thought for the day, maybe? Perhaps someone can tell me why it is that in faiths where no strongly independent theocratic profession exists/survives, people tend to support independent thought more?
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]2. Islam/Judaism/Christianity all profess indepence of thought, action and power to be essentially the worst sins imaginable.
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What? Just because we CAN do whatever we want, doesn't mean we SHOULD.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Eon @ Mar. 04 2004,4:58)]An interesting thought for the day, maybe? Perhaps someone can tell me why it is that in faiths where no strongly independent theocratic profession exists/survives, people tend to support independent thought more?
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I'm but a simple mind, would you mind rephrasing that ?
 
nothing wrong with thinking, science, power depends on how you handle it..I mean Solomon was a great ruler, God blessed him
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Just sell your soul to Satan, GM, on a hilltop during a full moon. Cut yourself a few times for good measure, too.
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Nice! This Saturday is a full moon AND there's a hill right behind my house. God is giving me a message - he wants me to do magic.

By the way, to all the people talking about magic: why don't you do some? I mean, there are so many Christians on here, surely one of you must have "faith as a grain of mustard seed." Why don't you do some good and convince all the damned heathens that your god is real?
 
Convenient. Ever notice that god has absolutely no accountability in this life? Again, very convenient. Cute, too.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Grand Master @ Mar. 04 2004,10:32)]By the way, to all the people talking about magic: why don't you do some?
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Hehe...because I'm smart enough to know that I'd be stupid enough to ruin myself with it.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]surely one of you must have "faith as a grain of mustard seed." Why don't you do some good and convince all the damned heathens that your god is real?
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I have faith, and I have seen miracles. Your the one without faith, so why do you expect to see miracles? This world isn't about us, its about God.
 
I've done some. It's bloody hard work - you never get something for nothing. The trick with magic is to take it on your terms - not enter into it with a blank cheque. There are a lot of sharks out there, looking to take a bite.
 
I'v seen miracles, a week ago my friends legs grew out to ewual length, and my friend who had a really messed up sight dont have to use glasses. thats not magic, its miracles.
And having faith like a msutard seed, there is ppl who have that, alot of them, the reason I don't, I guess I'm to lazy...

Where do you draw your magic from Eon? your self?
 
Eztral, those aren't miracles...just because we don't understand something doesn't give us the right to arbitrarily assign it to "god". It just shows that there are still advances to be made in our knowledge of biology.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I'v seen miracles, a week ago my friends legs grew out to ewual length, and my friend who had a really messed up sight dont have to use glasses. thats not magic, its miracles.
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Timor's right. Just because someone's legs are equal lengths, or someone doesn't need glasses doesn't mean they're miracles. If someone has bad eyesight, their eyes can correct themselves. ( I think, at least. ) And some people just don't need glasses.
 
ye of little faith try to explain everything away and be rational in an irrational world..... you dont know what happened or the circumstances so who says it wasnt a miracle,


although i do agree with timor to a point
 
Ye of too much faith don't even bother trying to explain things rationally and automatically point to miracles without eliminating other possibilities.

Thanks for agreeing with me to a point, though
wink.gif
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]ye of little faith try to explain everything away and be rational in an irrational world..... you dont know what happened or the circumstances so who says it wasnt a miracle,
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Who says it was a miracle? Just because miracles happen doesn't mean every good thing that happens is a miracle.
 
Drawing magic from yourself is dangerous - for certain types of magic though, such as healing, it's the most effective.
Now first of all, I've never seen anything Thaumaturgical. The circles I used to go around in were strictly spiritual and divinatory. Those are the safest and the easiest magicks to command, because spirits work according to rules and provide the energy themselves for the bulk of the work you're interested in doing. Divinatory magick is, of course, the least external magick you can do. But the effect that the runes can have on your thought processes is very interesting. I've seen some marvellous things thanks to runecraft - it just helps your mind to get onto different paths entirely, very good for the creative process.

I'm not sure that gross thaumaturgical effects are even possible any more. I can't confirm or deny whether they ever were, to be honest. I can assume though, that practitioners able to work in the open, starting from very young, and with full time study, would be able to achieve a lot more than I have seen done.
 
I'm sure you'll understand, Eon, when I say that I will not believe in magic until I see it, or it is objectively, empirically observed and studied.
 
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