Why jesus died for us

CCGR

CCGR

Member
Jesus gave His life for a cause we can all relate to – He suffered and died on our behalf. He was not driven by a philosophy or a political movement, but by His own great love for us. The Christ faced the Cross, not because we had somehow earned His allegiance, but because we had failed Him so miserably. Christ overcame our sin by dying in our place. He became our substitute and suffered for the sins we have committed. Jesus gave it all because we have nothing to offer. Our only option is to accept His sacrifice and to bow down and worship.
 
Actually, even by your book we have another option. I deny Christ 110%, but I'm still walking around, aren't I?

Seems like I'm exercising the option...
 
No, I don't, imagine that. Tell me, in simple and straightforward terms, why my only option is to:

1) Accept that my life is ruled by a spiteful, tyrannical, insecure, vengeful, and largely heartless being AND

2) Repeatedly kiss the said supposed being's sizeable hindquarters because it allegedly chose to step down to the level of its creations ONCE, and promptly died an unpleasant death.

Also, bother to explain to me, in simple and straightforward terms, why the aforementioned unpleasant death should "redeem" me from sins I haven't even committed. Add to that, and make it simple for the poor boneheaded me, the explanation of why the balance of good and evil that I spread here matters not after I croak. And do not bother with "Because God said so".

And sum it all up with a convincing argument towards why I should abandon logic and knowledge in favor of a blind belief only because I need to be sure that something will persist after my death.

Up to the task, you prayboy? no - HELL no - you SHEEP??!!
 
Damar, you have to recognise the difference between a serious discussion and a "Go Team God!" thread.

I make a point of letting them have these threads - they're nothing but hyperbole, and that's fine - they're slogans not debates.

Eon
 
Difference here? I know not. "Go Team GOD?" I seem to remember going into several petty discussions and seeing them transform into serious discussions...but that's just me. IT takes the posters to change it into serious stuff.
Deny Christ 110%. He still cares, but you have until that untimely stalker codenamed D.E.A.T.H. shows up at the wrong moment and thrusts his hand through your heart to cease your life.
spiteful, tyrannical, insecure, vengeful, and largely heartless
Last I checked, God wasn't all too spiteful. He didn't hold any grudges, save except sinfulness, and he didn't vent his frustrations on us. In fact, he spared us quite often from that, and that is repeated throughout the Bible. From Abraham to Moses to Christ. As for tyrannical, I thought we had discussed that point elsewhere, but regardless: to be a tyrant means to fully dominate and allow nothing else in your subject's life. God, when you move him into your life as Lord, is nowhere near a tyrant. I've been a Christian for a long time, but only started to think about God lately, a few years or so. In none of this time have I seen a hateful God frowning down on me whenever I did something wrong, or striking me upside the head when I stray from him. No. He does not do that: he tries to guide us along his path and his Word, and does not send heaven's wrath down upon us when we do not cooperate. Also, if we offend him he doesn't slice off my head, as most tyrants would...
Insecure? How so? I would think that any God who would sacrifice his life for us would not be insecure at all. In fact, very bold. God did not shy away from the Temple when he was called to it. God did not shy away from the death he needed to make. Insecure? Hardly. We are the ones insecure to not believe in HIm and to believe in ourselves.
I will not deny God is a vengeful God. He says as much, for we are not to avenge ourselves. You make fun of me, I make fun of you, you hurt me, I hurt you. For one, he says we are to turn the other cheek now, rather than the eye for an eye, and to top that all, the ultimate vengeance is God's.
God, heartless? LAUGHABLE! I want you to give me...two, a measly two, passages of Scripture that proves God's heartlessness. Yes, yes, a heartless Henry VIII died on a stick for me...a heartless Anne Marie lost her head for me, and gave her life for her people, and a heartless Abraham Lincoln led me to salvation. Unlike all those, God did that all for me. A heartless tyrant, I highly doubt, would give up his life for a measly peasant such as you and me.
As to the point of his death on the cross for your uncommitted sins: the point of the animal sacrifice was to cover all the sins to that point, and then another sacrifice would be required, more blood, more life. God ended that with his own death, to be the ultimate sacrifice. If God's death didn't cover now, and later, what point would it be? It would be as worthless as the lamb's slaughter for eternal forgiveness.
Good and evil matters, whether or not you die. It's happened since Adam's death, and it hasn't cared about his death, either. There is an ongoing conflict, until the end, between good and evil.
Abandon logic? Did Paul abandon logic for blind faith? No. He had faith, surely, but he used his wisdom and knowledge as he travelled, and it is through his logic and thought that he was able to convert so many and to have such an influence on the populace that many would seek his death. Combined, of course, with his faith.
Every man has faith. Even you Damar. You have faith in man. IN yourself. I have faith in God. I have seen the fault of man and what it leads to, and how much good it DOES NOT do. I have looked to the faith I have in God and I see that I lose nothing in my walk, and only gain. Inmy faith in man, I lose it all, and win nothing. I've tried it and seen the results. Man cannot save me from death. God, however, can. I would rather take God over man, any day. For God explains what man does not. Man cannot explain our origins. Man cannot explain our destination. God has done both already. Why should I put my trust in an incredibly faulty and twisted icon when I can put my trust in the evertrue, almighty, perfect God?
 
Do you want me to dig up all the stuff in the OT about committing genocide, eating people's children, spitting heads on sticks etc?

I mean - really?

Or the stuff about wiping out the whole planet, at least twice?

C'mon man - read your own holy book, will you?

Eon
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]1) Accept that my life is ruled by a spiteful, tyrannical, insecure, vengeful, and largely heartless being
Click to expand...

Because it's fun.  Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Repeatedly kiss the said supposed being's sizeable hindquarters because it allegedly chose to step down to the level of its creations ONCE, and promptly died an unpleasant death.
Click to expand...

Because it makes it obvious of the existence of God, and therefore you should know your place and do what is said.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Also, bother to explain to me, in simple and straightforward terms, why the aforementioned unpleasant death should "redeem" me from sins I haven't even committed.
Click to expand...

Because if you actually knew anything about Christianity, than you would know about it's roots in Judaism.  Knowing that, than you should be able to realize that Jewish people were required to make atonement sacrifices for sins using the most perfect animal they could find.  Is there anything more perfect than the Son of God to provide the ultimate sacrifice to free people from having to make atonement sacrifices?  Sorry, but you better know something about what you're talking about before initiating another point.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]the explanation of why the balance of good and evil that I spread here matters not after I croak.
Click to expand...

SIZE MATTERS NOT!  Seriously, I think this one is kinda obvious....

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]And sum it all up with a convincing argument towards why I should abandon logic and knowledge in favor of a blind belief only because I need to be sure that something will persist after my death.
Click to expand...

I'm training as an engineer, and you're trying to tell me this faith doesn't follow logic and knowledge?  Wow.  I'm going to let you introduce yourself to archeology and history before I continue....

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Up to the task, you prayboy? no - HELL no - you SHEEP??!!
Click to expand...

I could respond to this rediculous little immature statement, but I've got better things to do....

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I make a point of letting them have these threads
Click to expand...

Don't forget that this IS a Christian board....

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Do you want me to dig up all the stuff in the OT about committing genocide, eating people's children, spitting heads on sticks etc?
Click to expand...

The United States also armed the Mahoujadeen when they were fighting the Russians.  Welcome to a different time, and a different place.

You're also forgetting that OT is also old covenent.
 
When I said I make a point of letting you have these threads, I meant of letting you have them without me coming in here and acting the smart arse.

Eon
 
Ok, fair enough
smile.gif
.
 
"Have you read your Bible lately?" -probably a quote from a commercial somewhere.
Yeah I've read the Bible, yeah I know what God commanded. But you know, there was a reason for it. Genocide, definitely. He ordered the complete and entire annihilation of the Amalekites, as said in 1 Samuel 15, but you know what King Saul, the one commanded to wipe them out, did? He spared King Agag instead, and the fattest of his animals. He did not wipe out everything. Total genocide. Amalek ambushed Israel a while back when he went up from Egypt, and God was going to have serious retribution. Genesis 12:3 says, "I will bless those who bless you, and I will curse him who curses you; and in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." That's a covenant, my friend. God promised that. And want to know what's so cool about America? We're one of the only countries supporting them...and I seem to think we're doing pretty good as countries go.
Ehhh, yeah, could you show me some passages for parts of eating people's children...and SPITTING heads on sticks? That would be interesting to see, since heads can only fit in a mouth in very small chunks...
As for wiping out the whole world twice, definitely. The Flood, and the Fire. WE've already been totally reshaped as geology goes, and reshaped as animal life and atmospehre and just about anything else goes, too. The fire will totally rip apart everything. And I'm sure as Damar knows, extreme heat does stuff like that to atoms: tear them apart and melt them completely. OUr world will be nothing more than a scroll rolling away in the end. Try rolling up a scroll and letting it fold back, very vivid for a depiction of this globe being wrapped away from the heat and expiring completely...
 
Spitting is a word that means you take a stick and shove it from one side through to the other.

<sighs>

And I'll dig up the quotes for you.

Eon
 
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