The English Peppered Moth

  • Thread starter Thread starter Medjai
  • Start date Start date
M

Medjai

Guest
The English peppered moth, Biston betularia, has been a longtime favorite example in evolution section of zoology text, and it has been equally prominent in creationist literature attacking evolution. According to the traditional evolutionary account, this moth species comes in two basic colors: mottled white, and black. The mottled white form beautifully matches the lichens on many English trees; the black moths stand out against the background and are easier targets for moth-hungry birds. During the Industrial Revolution, when pollution from factories killed the lichens and the trees reverted to the darker color of natural bark, all of a sudden it was the white form that was conspicuous.

Black moths soon outnumbered white ones, until comparatively recently, when a crusade against air polution has again tipped the scales back in the white variety's favor: the lichens are back in force, and now it is the black moths whose life expectancy is the lower of the two. Here, evolutionist asserts, is adaptive evolution --- natural selection monitoring environmental change. The moths best suited to prevailing conditions are, on average, more likely to to survive and reproduce. The pepperd moths provide a beautiful case of small-scale evolution.

It comes as no surprise, then, to find these English moths well represented in creationist literature, too. And it was only a minor departure from their usual course to see that, rather than trying to debunk the example, creationist such as Gary Parker and Duane Gish accept the facts of the moth story --- of , claiming that it somehow supports the creation model.

But I was not prepared to find creationist --- particularly Parker and Gish, perhaps the two most eloquent creation "biologist" --- actually accepting the moths as examples of small-scale evolution by natural selection! Modern creationist readily accept small-scale evolutionary change and the origen of new species from old. That, to my mind, is tantamount to conceding the entire issue, for, there is utter continuity in evolutionary processes from the smallest scales (microevolution) up through the largest scales (macroevolution.

How can creationist admit that evolution coccurs while sticking to their creationist guns and denying that avolution has produced the great dinersity of life? Creationist simply insist that the sorts of examples of evolution that biologist give have nothing to do with the wholly new, the truly different. The Creationist model is clear on this point: the Creator created "basic kinds," each kind peplete with its own complement of genetic variation.

Creationist see nothing wrong when they admit that natural selection and reproduction isolation have worked within each basic kind, sorting out this priordial variation to produce various specialized types. Creationist R. L. Wysong, a veterinarian, likens the process to the production of the panoply of dog breeds by artificial selection ---the great array of different dogs all springing from the same ancestrial pool of genetic variation.

Creationist deny that mutations fill the bill as the ultimate source of new variation. Mutations they claim, are nearly always harmful and are in any case exceedingly rare --- precisely the arguments seen as a serious intellectual challenge to Darwinian theory in the earliest days of genetics, untill their resolution in the late 1920s and 1930' With the the advent of molecular biology, genetic variations within species has been shown to exceed by far all previous estimates, and most mutations are small-scale and neither especially harmful nor beneficial when they occur.

It fits the evolutionary view of the world that mutations are random with respect to to the needs of organisms: mutations don't occur because they help an organism; rather they are mistakes in copying the genetic code ---in this sense, no different from the mistakes monks occasionally made when copying medieval mauscripts like the Testaments. That some of these biological mistakes may ultimatly prove beneficial is all evolutionist have ever claimed.
 
Ah yes, the great peppered moth that proves NOTHING. This does not nor has it every proven evolution. Evolution would be if there had never been a black moth before, if it had started appearing when the lichen disappeared. Rather, this is just who gets ate and who doesn't.

both colors of moth's are there. Both colors of moth's have always been there. It's just a matter of which is it easier for their prey to see. That's not evolution, that's a diet plan
 
The "peppered-moth" is an example of "microevolution" or "variation" within it's kind, not "macroevolution" which is what evolutionists need. In England when they used to burn coal in the factories, the soot and the pollutants expelled by these factories settled on the light-colored trees and darkened their appearance considerably. It was observed that the "peppered-moth" supposedly evolved from its light-colored appearance (when it was light-colored it was camouflaged when it was on the trees) to black. The moth supposedly evolved from white to black when the coal-burning factories darkened the trees. Nobody will deny that the "change" occurred but it isn't evolution, evolutionists should know better. Evolution is the evolving of one species to another and we just don't see that happening. What they don't tell you is that before the factories began burning coal, 95 % of the moth population was white and 5 % was black. After a period of time the trees turned black and the moths shifted to 95 % black. After the residue was washed off of the trees the population shifted back to predominantly white. What you have here is an example of "variation" within the "kind" of moth and "natural selection." Naturally when the trees turned black, the white moths were seen easily by birds and were eaten and the black ones weren't seen and naturally their population grew and the black offspring would have a better chance of survival. This is consistent with the creation model of each "kind" producing after its own "kind." (Genesis 1:11, 12, 25) For example, the original dog/wolf kind that was on Noah's Ark was probably very heterozygous (meaning it contained a vast array of genetic information for things such as length of fur, size, etc, After all, look at all the different "kinds" of dogs that we have produced by simply interbreeding) and could have produced many different "kinds" of dogs after the flood and as each "kind" overspread the earth what is called the "founder's effect" would have been prevalent. An example of the "founder's effect" would be a pair of wolves in this case becoming isolated by some natural disaster for example, from the rest of the pack. If most of the pack had long fur and the isolated pair had short hair and/or many other differences from the main group there offspring would most likely retain the isolated pairs dominant genes and in time when a new "group" is established they would predominantly retain the genetic traits of the isolated pair and if they were different from the "original kind" a new "kind" is formed. That is called the "founder's effect." Now back to the "peppered-moth." All we see is that God programmed a variety of colors in the moth's genetic data. NO NEW GENETIC INFORMATION arose which is what "macroevolution" needs. Even if new info did arise we still have a moth. The only thing that changed was its color. It is still a moth no matter which way you look at it. Evolution contends that dinosaurs turned into birds, vertebrate fish turned into amphibians, and primates "evolved" into humans among other things and this is some of he best "evidence" that they can supply? A moth changes its color from white to black, give me a break.

http://www.reachingforchrist.org/apologetics/fallacies_cont.html?
 
...so you're telling me that a creature's color proves it's evolution? I'm not certain if those are your words...
1. Black moths die for lack of camo.
2. White moths die for lack of camo.
3. Black moths die for lack of camo.
4. Therefore evolution occurs.

If I'm a black man and it's dark,and I'm wearing all black, and I have black hair, and I'm standing in the shadows, chances are, a lot of people are going to miss me. However, if someone is LOOKING for me, chances are better they'll find me. Chances aren't too good they'll find me anyways, because it's dark, but their chances are higher because they're actually LOOKING for me.

If I am looking for food, I will probably pass over looking for some tesselations in bark, and just pick what comes easier.
 
Evolution can be summed up in a few words: Only The Fittest Survive. When there was white-ish lichen on the trees, it was harder to spot the white moths in the area, therefore, they were able to Survive and Reproduce. Black moths, however, could not reproduce at the rate that white ones could because they were severely outnumbered by the white ones. But when the lichens disappeared, the white moths stuck out like sore thumbs, whereas the darker moths were able to hide against the colors of the trees like the white ones were with the lichens. Therefore, moth eating animals began eating the white moths instead of the black, simply because they were easier to acquire. The white ones began dying out, and the black were able to Survive and Reproduce, therefore growing in population, while the white ones declined.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ Sep. 17 2003,7:33)]If I am looking for food, I will probably pass over looking for some tesselations in bark, and just pick what comes easier.
Exactly. White moths became easier to find against black-brown bark, therefore they began to get eaten, just as the black ones were hunted because they stood out against the white lichen.
 
but that is not evolution.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That series of changes under natural law which involves continuous progress from the homogeneous to the heterogeneous in structure, and from the single and simple to the diverse and manifold in quality or function

That is evolution. Survival of the fittest, while often a part of the theory, is just that, a part. The problem with that singular part is that it's not truly evolution, since the surviving characteristics were there to begin with. That pepper moth is not an example of simple going to diverse. Rather, it's diverse staying diverse, just different ones living.
 
Natural selection is the entire basis of what makes the gradual changes in a species, though.

What's that quoted from, by the way?
 
The dictionary (dictionary.com)



Actually from what I understand, natural selection would cause the moths to end up grey.  Natural selection is supposed to pick, not the best (survival of the fittest) and not the worst (survival of hte weakest) but rather the medium.


take dogs for example.  We have hundreds if not thousands of breeds of dogs, with traits that breed true.  Now are these traits evolved for each breed of dog?

No, even though they  do breed true, given a population of dogs, and nature will restore them to a common stock, where they look more homogenous.  If you don't require certain breeds to breed with one another, then you get Benji, rather than lassie.  Did these dogs loose the ability to look like Lassie?  No.  You could once more breed them out into a differing breeds (With time and patience)  Yet at no time is this evolution.  This is breeding.  You're breeding for traits yes, but the other traits are still there, they're not selected out.
 
Actually, dogs are considered a seperate species from wolves (they came from wolves).
 
I am glad you brought this arguement up.  I carefully studyied your writing of the "Peppered Moth" arguement and agree that it is textbook in its accuracy.  The Peppered Moth arguement has been well received by those in the evolution forum.  As HB Kettlewell stated:

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]"He [Darwin] would have witnessed the consummation and confirmation of his lifes work."
Evolution and the Fossil Record, Readings from Scientific American, "Darwin's Missing Evidence," H.B Kettlewell (San Francisco, CA: W.H. Freeman and Co., 1978), p.23.

This arguement, as it stands, demonstrates nothing more than gene frequencies shifting back and forth, within a kind.  We see this type of gene frequency variances in nature all the time, and it become very appearant when predators or natural defenses are removed from an enviroment.  This is not evidence of a new species of a moth being created.  As you mentioned, the peppered moth comes in two colours, there is not two different species.  And as the arguement states, a change in natural defenses occoured.

This evidences a few things logically.

First, no new species of moth was created.
Second, if the white coloured type had become totally extinct, we would have a loss of genetic information but, still the Biston betularia species would have survied via the black colour, but not as a new species
Third, as the story goes, with the introduction of clean air initiatives, the white variant has made an overwhelming come back.  But, not as a new species and not with the introduction of new genetic information.

It is on these three issues that the peppered moth arguement is actually the number 2 thrown out arguement by respected evolutionists  (It is not evolution).  There are also practacle reasons as to why the peppered moth arguement is not used anymore:

Peppered moths don't even rest on tree trunks during the day.

Kettlewell and others attracted moths into traps in the forest either with light or by releasing female pheromones, in either case, they only flew at night.  So where do they spend the day?  Turning to the worlds premier authority on peppered moths, Cyral Clarke (A British Scientist), we find he writes:

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]But the problem is that we do not know the resting sites of the moth during the day...In 25 years we have found only two betularia on the tree trunks or walls adjacent to our traps (one on an appropriate background and one not), and none elsewhere.

C.A. Clarke, G.S. Mani, and G. Wynne, "Evolution in Reverse: Clean Air and the Peppered Moth, " Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 26:189-199, 1985; quote on p. 197

We also find that the moths filmed being eaten by the birds were laboratory-bred ones.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The moths filmed being eaten by the birds were laboratory-bred ones placed onto tree trunks by Kettlewell; they were so languid that he once had to warm them up on his car hood.

Calgary Herald, March 21, 1999, p.D3

What about the still photos of the moths on the tree trunks?

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Dead moths were glued to the tree

D.R. Lees and E.R. Creed, "Industrial Melanism in Biston Betularia: The Role of Selective Predation," Journal of Animal Ecology 44:67-83, 1975

This is further confirmed by University of Massachusetts biologist Theodore Sargent who helped glue moths onto threes for a NOVA documentary.  He says textbooks  and films have featured "a lot of fraudulent photographs."

J.A. Coyne, Nature, 396(6706):35-36; The Washington Times , January 17, 1999, p. D8.

Studies of shown very poor correlation between the lichen covering and the respective moth populations.  When researchers glued dead moths to trees in an unpoluted forest, the darker moths were eaten by the birds as predicted.  But, their traps  captured four times as many dark moths as light ones - the opposite of textbook preditions! (See Lees and Creed reference).

Evolutionary bioligist Jerry Coyne of the University of Chicago agrees that the peppered moth story, which was "the prize horse in our stable," has to be thrown out.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Unfettered by evolutionary "just so" stories, researchers can now look for the real causes of these population shifts.  Might the dark form actually have a function, like absorbing more warmth?  Could it reflect conditions in the caterpillar stage?  In a different nocturnal moth species, Sargent has found that the plants eaten by the larvae may induce or repress the expression of such "melanism" in adult moths

T.R. Sargent et al. in M.K. Hecht et al., Evolutionary Biology New York, NY: Plenum Press, 1998
 
who said anything about wolves? i'm talking collies and retrievers.

Same species, different coloring, the same as the moth
 
Back
Top