Press Release on forums result in warning?

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ChristianCrusader

ChristianCrusader

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I made a press release on the EVE Online forums earlier today. I used text from The Vision of Tribe of Judah and included some of the biblical references in that text (written by Tek7).

I came back home and logged in, found that the replies resultet in a two page thread, not something I would have expect to see the first time I presented Tribe of Judah's new chapter.

However, my inital post had been snip'ed by a forum moderator. Some of the inital text had been left alone and by removing some sentences while others still remained, the content of my (moderated) post was that "it was all an absurd thing" that there is a God. Some of the replies followed the same path as the moderator's editing.

According to a reply from the forum moderator (character name "Tirg") I will recieve a watning for breaking the Forum Rules (and maybe also the End User License Agreement). I am yet to recieve such a warning and have contacted the forum moderators and asked them to specify exactly what I did wrong and what rules that I broke here. I will edit this post as I learn more....

Some of the replies from other players:

by Turiya Flesharrower
Welcome to EvE, where 99.% of the population are know-it-all agnostic nerds; I can't think of a better platform for a God-loving corporation than this.

by ParMizaN
Religion and games do not mix, especially ones with such a wide variety of people.

by Shadowsword
Good luck, but I suggest you keep your own justifications for playing this game private. Most of us won't like seeing religious zealotry starting to invade a game, and we can make our displeasure shown...

by Logan Williams
An online game is NOT the forum to push religious convictions. Please understand that, as people war dec you and kill you, that it's not about God, it's only about you.

by SirMolle
RL religion, regardless of which, has no place in a game. I consider this flamebait and highly offensive.

by thetwilitehour
I'm as agnostic as the next guy, and I get irritated when people ring my doorbell at christmas to tell me how terrible it is that people stop fighting wars for one day to celebrate christmas.

But why all the flames, if you people are really agnostic/atheist you should be at least desplaying a modicum of open mindedness, these people apparently actually believe in something and are ready to talk about it through a medium they think will be effective.

While I dont agree with them, and if they talk to me will probably block them, I dont feel any need to flame them.

Why do you?

by Krystian
Ned Flanders is playing EvE now? Leave RL religion out of the game. Do you have any clue how many RL people of different religions play this game? Please keep your personal justification to play this game to yourself.
 
Unfortunately, the replies you read today are nothing new. They might be new posts written by different people, but I've been reading the same messages for the last seven years, every time one of our members posts a recruiting call.

When I established Tribe of Judah in May 1999, I was surprised by two things: First, that other Christian gamers shared my desire to form a group based on a common faith. Second, that those responding in hostile fashion had so few variations in their replies. Over the course of the next few years, I lost track of the number of sarcastic comments, references to the Crusades and Salem witch trials, and "r u serious?" posts--in part, because I stopped reading replies to recruiting calls.

While I don't want to limit what the Lord could do through this situation, I would advise any ToJ member struggling with anger and frustration to add a disclaimer to the end of the thread--something to the effect of, "I will not be reading replies to this thread. Here's a link to our site, a link to our forums, and I wish you all well." That's the tactic I took a few years after establishing ToJ, and it's served me well since.

If people are genuinely interested in rational debate, they will seek you out. If all they want to do is post hostile "flame war" fodder, they won't bother to create an account on our forums and do so. (Even if they do, they'll be banned within the first few posts.)

I'm all for intelligent discussion, even when--especially when--it asks difficult questions. But I have no time for purposely ignorant dismissal of important questions of faith, life, and the divine.
 
Hi there,

I am one of the players in EVE Online, I saw your thread before it got moderated, and I have to say it made me pretty angry, and I want to tell you why.

First of all though, Welcome to EVE. Every new player boosts our community, and i'm sure I speak for most of the other players when i say, we're glad you chose to join EVE.

The reason why everyone (myself included, of course) reacted so strongly towards you, is that your approach was wrong in every way possible.

What on earth made you post biblical references??? Ramblings about how you're gaming in the name of the lord? For any non-believer such as myself, that is pure propaganda and we most certainly do NOT want any of that in EVE.

Please, join EVE, feel free to explore your religion your own way, but do not preach to others, we do NOT feel the same way.

I ask you to consider renaming your corp and your character, become neutral and allow other players to believe whatever they want to believe. And then, might I suggest a slightly different worded recruitment post, something like

Hi there,

We are calling for any Christian gamers who are playing eve, and would like to join a corporation of like-minded people. We are keen to enjoy the game, the community, and we are looking for others to join us in our journey.

For more information, contact...

So you are prepared, EVE Online is a game of violence, of deceit - backstabbing - death and danger, it is not the bunny happy loving world of warcraft. Suffice to say, the average EVE player does not want to hear quotes from the bible.

that being said, WELCOME TO THE GAME :D
 
ya eve is definately a spool of atheists, unfortunately I believe the moderators were out of place to slaughter a post. Post more scripture, unless it breaks the eula and forum rules. The eve forums are notorious for open flame wars. players are very competitive. Also be extremely careful in 0.5 and lower sec zones as people will hunt you for the fun of it.
 
vibrokatana said:
ya eve is definately a spool of atheists, unfortunately I believe the moderators were out of place to slaughter a post. Post more scripture, unless it breaks the eula and forum rules. The eve forums are notorious for open flame wars. players are very competitive.
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Yes I will continue posting. I thought about it for a while and I think I understand now why they felt offended. I used text from the Vision of ToJ, used biblical references etc. and even though the text was ment to attract belivers, it happended so that everyone in EVE became receivers of the message, especially since I used phrases like: Our love for Christ is displayed in everything we do, even how we play video games. :)

As for the moderator, they crossed the line last night. They say: It was me who commited the "crime" by posting the text. However, it says in Rules of Conduct that You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies, and as far as I know, the EULA and RoC apply to forum moderators as well.

Also be extremely careful in 0.5 and lower sec zones as people will hunt you for the fun of it.
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Are you sure?!?! :eek:
 
Robert Dobbs said:
I am one of the players in EVE Online, I saw your thread before it got moderated, and I have to say it made me pretty angry, and I want to tell you why.
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It always amaze me to hear that, that every time the are being handed the Gospel they are angered by it. But if that is your way to react to it....

First of all though, Welcome to EVE. Every new player boosts our community, and i'm sure I speak for most of the other players when i say, we're glad you chose to join EVE.
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I love your rethorical skills, which are very much appreciated.

The reason why everyone (myself included, of course) reacted so strongly towards you, is that your approach was wrong in every way possible.

What on earth made you post biblical references??? Ramblings about how you're gaming in the name of the lord? For any non-believer such as myself, that is pure propaganda and we most certainly do NOT want any of that in EVE.

Please, join EVE, feel free to explore your religion your own way, but do not preach to others, we do NOT feel the same way.
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When did you become the spoksman for the whole EVE community? Or Have CCP already implemented the new Low-grade Cerebral Cortex implant that allow you access to another pilot's brain?

However, it is nice to see that you made it to our boards, especially since I did not post a link to it in my post on the EVE Online forums.

I ask you to consider renaming your corp and your character, become neutral and allow other players to believe whatever they want to believe.
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Yes and then you would very much see me burn all my Bibles, and go have an outragous S/M party in my local church too? See where I am going with this? You are very polite and I like that, so I will invite you to join such a party...

And then, might I suggest a slightly different worded recruitment post, something like

Hi there,

We are calling for any Christian gamers who are playing eve, and would like to join a corporation of like-minded people. We are keen to enjoy the game, the community, and we are looking for others to join us in our journey.

For more information, contact...
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Yes, thank you. I will use a text similar to that. Meanwhile feel free to read my latest thread on the EVE Online Forums, concerning job oppurtunities. Also, very important, do not miss out on EVE Online TERMS OF SERVICE, Linkage, where you find something very interesting at rule #3: You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-gay, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies.

Suffice to say, the average EVE player does not want to hear quotes from the bible.
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Look above.

that being said, WELCOME TO THE GAME :D
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Thank you.
 
To be fair, I believe Robert's point of contention was the use of Scripture which, though should not offend in the context it was given, could be replaced with a link to the "Vision of Tribe of Judah" thread in future posts. I believe this would be a reasonable compromise: It would allow us to continue expressing our vision for using gaming as a ministry tool, and it would calm EVE Online players upset by finding Scriptures quoted directly in a post.

As for remaining "neutral" and renaming the corporation, I believe that such a request is made under the assumption that we can "switch" our faith on and off. Though I admit there are a number of "religious" Christians in the church who do just that, there are many who are striving to incorporate their faith into every aspect of their lives. When we post expressing that concept on public forums, many people take this to mean that we "Bible thump" or proselytize. Instead, we express our faith by striving to "love your neighbor as thyself," encourage other players, and "play nice." This behavior has often singled us out as "different" in the past, and, on several occasions, led people to ask why we were different.

I think a great deal of friction between Christian and non-Christian gamers comes from a set of assumptions that are damaging to both. Robert took the time to create a forum account, post his complaint in a relatively polite manner, and may return to continue the debate. I think that shows a genuine interest in exploring the issue further in a civil manner--which is why I've taken the time to write this post and explain my perspective as the leader of a Christian gaming group.

Not all Christian gamers are "Bible-thumping" religious zealots.

Not all non-Christians gamers want to burn Christian gamers at the stake.

Once we set some basic assumptions aside, I think there's a great deal of room for healthy and civilized debate. Robert's post here defines what component of the post he believed others viewed as offensive, which helps us avoid future "flame wars" while still holding true to our faith.
 
I am all for keeping the corp the same name, When i am on break from college I can drop in and help out ingame. Considering the names of some corperations ingame, to consider changing just because some 14 year old doesnt want to (forgive the wording) be reminded of his sin (/end) is rediculous.

Unless we violate the eula THEY HAVE NO POWER OVER US. if a mod gets touchy, submit his name and what he did to the company. He can deal with his supervisors.

The hardest part of the whole thing is making the first footprint, you will face horrendous opposition as we have seen.

If you start the thread back up pm a link to me and ill drop in and help defend you (for what it little it can help).

I would make sure to respond with the forum rules:

# Be respectful of others at all times.
The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting.

# Ranting is prohibited
A rant is a post which is long-winded, redundant and filled with angry, non-constructive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and helpful in the development of the game, but rants are disruptive and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise, clear manner and avoid going off on rambling tangents.

# Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts which are designed to personally berate or insult another. Text of this nature is not beneficial to the community spirit and will not be tolerated. Corporation, faction members and other players are cautioned to avoid allowing an "in character" dispute become an "out of character" personal attack. The game is designed for role playing and/or portraying a role and it is sometimes easy for tempers to flare when the lines between the virtual world and the real world are crossed. Keep in-game disputes in the game and off the forum, please, unless it is clearly a mutual, in character exchange.
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Thanks for your replies.

ChristianCrusader, I don't speak for the EVE community, but please, open your eyes and take another look at the (recruitment?) thread you posted, and THEN tell me that the EVE community wants you to push your faith into their faces. You might also want to pay particular attention to the number of replies (and indeed number of views) on your latest thread.

Vibrokatana, I would be grateful if you would read my words with a little more open-mindedness. You expect others to be open-minded regarding your faith, why do you refer to me as "some 14 year old"? Is it because i'm telling you things that you don't want to hear? Your tone is far from what I would expect from a Christian. And, as you seem interested in my personal life, I am a "sinner". And i'm comfortable with that, thank you.

And, regarding the terms of service which you so helpfully quoted at me, a Christian corporation would constitute being "anti-religious" as the christian faith contradicts what many other people believe in.

*snip* -CC
 
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We didnt say we were forcing anyone to join our corporation. We are not forcing anyone to do anything. We are there if people want to find us. There is no reason for this malcontempt just because we say we are Christians and are looking for people to join our corporation.
 
Robert Dobbs said:
ChristianCrusader, I don't speak for the EVE community,
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Are you sure? Because your replies indicate that you do just that. But it could just be me who do not understand english.

Robert Dobbs said:
but please, open your eyes and take another look at the (recruitment?) thread you posted, and THEN tell me that the EVE community wants you to push your faith into their faces.
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Once again, the replies on the forum in the specific thread are hardly good representatives for the whole EVE community.

You might also want to pay particular attention to the number of replies (and indeed number of views) on your latest thread.
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Numbers are still numbers and they do not mean anything to me.

And, regarding the terms of service which you so helpfully quoted at me, a Christian corporation would constitute being "anti-religious" as the christian faith contradicts what many other people believe in.
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I dont get that, please explain your view of Christianity.
 
Robert Dobbs said:
Vibrokatana, I would be grateful if you would read my words with a little more open-mindedness. You expect others to be open-minded regarding your faith, why do you refer to me as "some 14 year old"? Is it because i'm telling you things that you don't want to hear? Your tone is far from what I would expect from a Christian. And, as you seem interested in my personal life, I am a "sinner". And i'm comfortable with that, thank you.
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I am sorry if you took offense, but as I see it we were not in the wrong, the people and moderators who responded so harshly are mostly to blaim.

We are not trying to convert most of eve, we are trying to make a safe haven for those Christians who are playing.

And the reference to 14 year olds, I mean immature people who decide to flame for no aparent reason then flaming.

Yes and I do make mistakes, I am at a high time of stress in my life, I just moved in my dorm the other day and am still organizing, as such I tend to make more mistakes (which is why I am settling a week before clases start). Just note that I am not angry at any one, I just feel that a large number of people are in the wrong, am I going to stand in the forums and start preaching for people to stop sinning? no.
 
As you are censoring my posts, and are apparently as naive as I had expected, this discussion is over.

I just feel that a large number of people are in the wrong
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When everyone else is in the wrong, you need to look at yourself.
 
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And, regarding the terms of service which you so helpfully quoted at me, a Christian corporation would constitute being "anti-religious" as the christian faith contradicts what many other people believe in.
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It's always okay unless it's Christian.
 
Reply from EVE Forum Moderators

Hello Christian Crusader,

Thank you for your emails to the EVE-Online Forum Moderator Team, it is
appreciated.

The reason why your thread was edited was because it contained a large
amount of real-life religious comments/discussion in the initial post. The
discussion of politics, religion or controversial real life events is not
permitted on the forums, as experience has shown that this inevitably leads
to heated debate and flaming, with a lot of upset people. As forum
moderators, it is our top priority to ensure that visiting and using the
EVE-Online forums is a pleasant experience for all users. The only time when
religious/political discussion is permitted is when it is EVE-Online related
(eg. Amarrian religion) and used in a role-play fashion.
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Edited
 
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