Not even One programmer . . .

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Card Hockey

Card Hockey

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. . . in this forum has any spare time nor a kind enough heart to help anyone but Themselves and without $compensation nor knows any other programmer that is kind enough? Wow, so much for "giving is better than receiving" around here! My God, what has the world come too? :)
 
Paul, it sounds like you want someone else to do the work for a project you have in mind (and the project is personal, no less). That doesn't exactly sound selfless to me.

Sorry you didn't find anyone, but don't call other people out for your unreasonable expectations.
 
I can't speak for all programmers out there, but there are a few main issues that need to be addressed.

1.) Programming is hard, takes time, and is a serious investment. There's a reason that when even highly skilled technical people come up with a great idea they don't immediately sit down and start work on it. I've got notebooks filled with what I consider fantastic ideas for all kinds of things (even beyond gaming), but haven't started the work on many of them because I know the kind of hours I'd have to put into it before I would even begin coding.

2.) Not all programming is the same. Some programmers have jobs focusing entirely on scripting, web development, databases, drivers, backend/frontend development, etc. etc. While any programmer can learn to do any of the other stuff, it still takes more time and effort to learn it before they use it -and the more learning it takes the less likely they'll want to do it, especially if it has little to no bearing on their job/desired job.

3.) Nothing ruins the enjoyment of creating something than for it to be uninteresting and eventually a chore. If I don't fully believe in and am not fully focused on what I'm doing, it takes a lot of effort on my part or an incentive -like say, it's my job or I'm getting paid- for me to keep going.


4.) Probably the main point, and reason you haven't gotten any takers is what you are asking for. You are essentially doing the equivalent of asking a professional author to write a novel out of your ideas, (or a construction worker to frame your house, etc.) in their free/spare time with nothing in it for them aside from the promise of possible monetary gain or the feel good fuzzies from doing something for you gratis.

For that to work, the idea to be worked on would have to be worthy enough to overcome all these challenges. That's why CGA and ToJ (and all volunteer organizations) have staff and people that work on the things that need it -because they believe it is important enough to give their time and effort.
 
Call me a cynic, but the second someone drops the "where's Christian charity?!" card is the second that person loses all credibility in my eyes.

If you're really going to stoop to manipulation, then good luck finding someone who wants to work with you. Guilt tripping, like you're doing here, is a low blow and manipulative to the core.

Was your idea good or bad? Doesn't matter to me any more. You come in, a stranger to the community, wanting someone to do your dirty work, then spout this emotionally manipulative tripe because nobody jumps to take on a huge project for you? Seriously?

No, sir. Bowser nailed it. You can't call people selfish because they won't do your work. If you believe in your idea, then learn to program. If you're not willing to put that level of effort in for your project, then how is it remotely reasonable to expect others to do it for you?

You want to look for help? That's cool. But leave your manipulative rubbish at the door. It has no place here.
 
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Card Hockey said:
. . . in this forum has any spare time nor a kind enough heart to help anyone but Themselves and without $compensation nor knows any other programmer that is kind enough? Wow, so much for "giving is better than receiving" around here! My God, what has the world come too? :)
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When a new user joins the forums and his or her first post is a request for free work, it doesn't bode well. I approved your first post regardless of my reservations because I wanted to see a Christian programmer succeed.

Contrary to popular opinion, social expectations remain the same online as they do in real life (at least among adults). If you join a new forum where the regulars don't know you from Adam, request work on an existing program, and offer no compensation, don't be surprised when people don't leap at the opportunity to help you. On a secular forum, the same would very likely be answered with fervent hostility.

Your request as a first post raises concerns that the poster is looking to exploit Christian goodwill for free labor rather than offer a legitimate and mutually beneficial business relationship.

Scripture calls for Christians for to be "wise as serpents and gentle as doves." People (sometimes even other Christians) disregard the first half and seek to exploit the second. I have heard tell of Christians expecting discounts or favors of Christian businesspeople simply on the basis of a shared faith--not an existing relationship.

Your first post raised red flags. Your second post sent them waving. An assumed anonymity may lead you to believe that your words don't carry the same consequences as "real life," but all your words are part of real life--including the ones you post online.

I understand--and sympathize with--the frustration of seeking volunteer help and finding no one who steps up. But a verbal backhand only damages your reputation and decreases (if not eliminates) the chances of anyone helping you in the future.

I would advise apologizing to this community if you plan to continue to post here. If you're unwilling to apologize, I believe it would be best for you and for the community if you do not post here again.

I would also advise you re-examine your assumption that a person is not "kind enough" because he or she does not want to work for free. I can not see that assumption leading to any positive results.
 
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Speaking of which... I have a garden that needs tending. Isn't there a single green thumb on this forum that would lend me a hand? Where is the love?

/s
 
I have some skill with a pan, so get your garden taken care of and supply me with the yields. I'll cook.

/culinary student
 
Card Hockey said:
. . . in this forum has any spare time nor a kind enough heart to help anyone but Themselves and without $compensation nor knows any other programmer that is kind enough? Wow, so much for "giving is better than receiving" around here! My God, what has the world come too? :)
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I'm one of those programmers that you're denigrating there, and actually, no, I don't have any spare time. Regardless of the state of my heart in this particular situation. I hold a full time job, where I have a backlog of months of work, I'm also a father, a husband, and still have to find time to continue learning about my career choice and my own personal projects. Additionally, I did not even bother reading a thread with the title of "A New Card Game" after all, I had no interest in card games as a general rule.

But, for the sake of discussion, let's pretend that I both had previously read said thread, and I did have time, which will let us consider this request you're making. The fundamental of what you're asking for is a programmer to take your demo, and get it to a working, marketable product. Basically, you're asking for the following steps (and highly specialized skills) to be performed:

  • Design Requirements
  • Build system
  • Test System
  • Build the UI
  • Test the UI
  • Test the UI and the system together
  • Create the Documentation
  • Build the marketing system (website, screenshots, payment system, etc)
  • Test marketing/system site
  • Integrate marketing system with the actual game
  • Build environment for hosting (game stats, game servers, download servers, web hosting, etc)

Given the current state of what you have, I would provide a preliminary estimate of 750 hours (and that's a minimum, you're probably looking close to 1,500 to 2,000 hours) to get this system designed, built and tested properly (and for the record, for something like this, I would insist upon getting paid hourly to build the software requirements--probably 80 hours there alone--and then we would talk about the hours/costs for the full development effort). Now, the hourly rate at which I'm billed out is $125/hour, which is $93,750 worth of work, again, at a minimum. And that's not even taking into consideration other costs such as servers, licenses, domains and hosting.

So, basically, you're asking me to give up months of my time with my family, in order to perform between $100,000 and $200,000 worth of work for you, for free. Worse, since this would be for a "for profit" endeavor, I would not even get a tax deduction out of it. That's months of time, I could be doing productive, PAYING work, or even better, spend it playing with my boys or talking to my wife.

This is what you're asking for.

And you say that I'm not kind because I didn't jump at the chance to give it to you?
 
Heeeeelp I can't fly! I can't write to boot but funny thing is I am trying to write hehehe I know I know I have to wait for my wings. Seems kinda funny slim stumbling around trying to do what he's never done wOOt haxing the English lit ways and ain't even skeered hehehe weebles wobble! Something I noticed that is really cool is that I'm not anxious doing his work but have been doing my own! Word! And what else is uber cool is our brothers and sisters see my efforts and respond by sharing what they can without me requesting. Advice, encouragement, even demonstrating a point is far better than they picking up what I can do and can try. If you have a dream pursue it and if this dream glorifys God trust me when I say the dream becomes more than yours. Focus with faith!
 
Ok guys, I think we've made our point with enough... emphasis Christ may or may not require us to give.
 
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