My Mothers and Brother --

[Guest]

My Mothers and Brothers


I often hear Protestants using the story of Christ saying that all who do His will are his Mothers and Brothers. They usually do this in order to bring Our Lady down to their level. This is a misunderstanding of Christ’s intent. When he said that those who did his will were his Mothers and Brothers he meant that as a complement for those who would do His will, not as an insult for his Mother. He was bringing them UP, not pulling His Mother DOWN.

Of course, Protestants may assume that they are doing the Will of Christ and so they are on an Equality with Mary. Let’s examine this assumption. Remember, we are talking of the Will of Christ as expressed in the Gospels – “take up your Crosses and follow me”. We are not speaking of Paulian Doctrine that dismisses Works, Righteousness, and Suffering and depends only upon a free and unearned grace – a doctrine of inaction which doesn’t involve the Will at all, but only Faith. In this regards there are very very few who ever do the Will of Christ.

Specifically regarding those who picked up their crosses and followed Him – the Catholic Church has documented something more than a hundred Stigmatics – with the supernatural Five Wounds of Christ – who suffered pain every day of their lives, and worse on Fridays – who would not be able to eat or drink anything but a Host and a sip of Sacramental Wine – for years on end. Typically they would die incorrupt – that years after burial their bodies would be found without decay, and often looking better than on the day they died. In their extreme suffering they have done the Will of Christ. Those who renounce Christ to follow Paul and depend upon a Free Salvation – it is Satan’s will they do, not Christ’s. One does not become Equal to Our Lady without meeting a high standard – and what standard could possibly be higher than doing the Will of Christ?.

 

[CCGR]

we follow Chirst and the book God inspired. the stigmatic stuff is weird...excorsist weird.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (CCGR @ Nov. 08 2003,8:10)]we follow Chirst and the book God inspired.  the stigmatic stuff is weird...excorsist weird.

I've pointed this out before -- that the Word of God at the Time of Christ was ORAL TRANSMISSION -- the Teachings of the Church was the Word of God. Now, you accept the Book that was Published in the Third Century by the Catholic Church, but you reject all of the Teachings that were current with that same Church in the Third Century.

Also, it is a wonderful Faith you have that All of the Bible is inspired -- especially in the Light of the Parable given by Christ that Tares would be mixed in with the Wheat. Could this not be a warning that not everything you might read is Kosher?

Christ gives us Criteria for discerning The False. If Christ was certain that the Holy Spirit would invariably protect the Flock from falsehood, then why the Warnings?

Everything about Protestants indicates that they believe that Christ was wasting His breath with every word He ever spoke, and that only Paul had any truth worth hearing.

But what I have found is that the Proof of Catholic Teachings is in the Lives of the Saints. Where no Protestant has ever been visited by the Holy Spirit, there have been numbers of Christ Like Saints in the Catholic Church who have validated Christ's statement that the Holy Spirit would do things even greater than He Himself. The Teachings of the Saints are the True Christianity -- Christianity proven by its being able to procure the Promises of Christ and the Holy Spirit, and they support the Gospels. Paul insists that Grace cannot be earned -- the implication being that no one should try. What we learn of the Saints is that they never stopped trying and never thought anything was enough --until it finally was enough. Paul was wrong.

Yes, Stigmatics are shocking. But Christ demonstrated the Utility of Suffering and Penance for Sin. Every Protestant is most willing to benefit by the Suffering of Christ, but when they are presented with the possibility that they too should suffer for Sin, they say it is "weird". So, Christ was "weird". People who imitate Christ are "weird". Protestants should get their noses out of the pretty pages of Paul and read the Gospels and learn their Real duties and responsibilities to Christ. Pick up your crosses and follow Him.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

CCGR stigmata is of satan and exorcism is of God not weird. Leo Yeshua died and paid the price for our sins. No were in the Bible are we told to be masochists and such of satan. By picking up your cross that meens get out of your comfort zone a fullfill the great comission. Prots never say that Yeshua was wasting his breath again stop with the false accuisations. If anything it is you marianists that say he was wasting his time. After all if Mary and your own death and penence (suicide and masochism) can get you into heaven why did Yeshua have to die? Simple he dident. If what you believe is true then the Bible is a lie.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,9:03)]CCGR stigmata is of satan and exorcism is of God not weird. Leo Yeshua died and paid the price for our sins. No were in the Bible are we told to be masochists and such of satan. By picking up your cross that meens get out of your comfort zone a fullfill the great comission. Prots never say that Yeshua was wasting his breath again stop with the false accuisations. If anything it is you marianists that say he was wasting his time. After all if Mary and your own death and penence (suicide and masochism) can get you into heaven why did Yeshua have to die? Simple he dident. If what you believe is true then the Bible is a lie.

"Stigmata is of Satan"

Interesting that Satan should wish to do Penance for the Sins of the World exactly the same way as Christ did. Interesting that while Protestants do nothing that Satan should obey the Injunction of Christ to "pick up your cross and follow me".

You are picking up the Mantra of the Antichrist Paul who told his followers at every turn that the Appearance of Righteousness, whenever it disagreed with Paul, was inevitably Satanic. and you believe him.

Christ gives His own Criteria for Evil -- that you would know a tree by its fruits and that evil would come as a wolf in sheep's clothing. So study the live of a few of the Stigmatics -- there was no wickedness in them. They brought healing and protection to their communities. They were not predators and did not take anything from anybody. Paul, on the other hand, was a Murderer, a fact which Luke was careful to point out, in just 20 pages -- so he must have thought the fact very very important. Paul split the Church in two, and taught people to ignore the Law and dispise Righteousness. But somehow Paul is Divine and the Stigmatics are Satanic. Why is it that Christ does not give a working Criteria for the discernment of Evil. With you Prots, is seems that Christ is always wrong. It seems that Christ never said a sensible word until he began to speak through Paul, when, suddenly, everything He said was somehow different.

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] ]Interesting that Satan should wish to do Penance for the Sins of the World exactly the same way as Christ did. Interesting that while Protestants do nothing that Satan should obey the Injunction of Christ to "pick up your cross and follow me".

He would actually. he has certainly decieved you into thinking that it is not Yeshua but your own stripes that get you into heaven. So in this way he lures people to false mesiahs.

Quote[/b] ]So study the live of a few of the Stigmatics -- there was no wickedness in them.

A biography can say anything it wants. But I assure you that they sinned.

Quote[/b] ]They brought healing and protection to their communities.

So did Kenneth Hagin so should you follow him? A demon can tell a demon to leave. Therefore they could heal and not be of God.

Quote[/b] ]But somehow Paul is Divine

Divine, no. A man of God yes.

Quote[/b] ]It seems that Christ never said a sensible word until he began to speak through Paul, when, suddenly, everything He said was somehow different.

You probably just cant descern Paul.

 

[LionOfJudah]

Ok Leo because i am a sinner i am going to live on a piece of plywood that is 5X8 on top of a 50 foot pole, and do nothing but "suffer" for Christ, and deny my self because i am a sinner.... Hi Pharisee how are you doing today. Dening yourself is nothing super big or hard, its simply doing little things day by day, helping someone out in the office when you could leave an hr early, or you getting up at night to take care of your crying child, or making dinner before your wife is home.
dening your self is teaching you to be a servant and to love others as Christ loved us, because after all Jesus is our one and only savior, but he was a servant. God had to learn how to submit and yield to others wills, He never knew what it was like, because Jesus was God, and He had to listen to the Father, God(Jesus) had to learn how to submit to anothers will, but God has always been a servant, look in the Old Testament when the people grumble about not having food, or always having the same thing..

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (Leo Volont @ Nov. 08 2003,8:56)]Now, you accept the Book that was Published in the Third Century by the Catholic Church, but you reject all of the Teachings that were current with that same Church in the Third Century.

I always found it interesting too...The RCC set the book, preserved it...yet many protestants act like the Bible is foreign to Catholicism. Just an observation.

 

[Big J]

Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Nov. 08 2003,11:55)]

Quote[/b] ]Dening yourself is nothing super big or hard

True. I do it all the time.

Quote[/b] ]helping someone out in the office when you could leave an hr early

OK...sure.

Quote[/b] ], or you getting up at night to take care of your crying child

Uh...no.

Quote[/b] ] or making dinner before your wife is home.

If she works too, then no. Not at all. So in other words...you both work all day, and you see it as special if you make dinner every so often?

Yeah...real impressive. Same with taking care of your kid.

Those examples were bad. Sorry.

Quote[/b] ]God has always been a servant, look in the Old Testament when the people grumble about not having food, or always having the same thing..

Yeah, he killed them. If my servant iced a family member, I'd fire him or her.
(hint...re read the parts about the people wanting meat.)

 

[LionOfJudah]

Well the 1 about the child is yeah its your responsablity and all, but i have heard from some of my friends who are fathers, that sometimes its easyer just to "ignore" it and wait for your wife to get up and sleeply responde to her question...

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Big J @ Nov. 08 2003,1:33)]

Quote[/b] (Leo Volont @ Nov. 08 2003,8:56)]Now, you accept the Book that was Published in the Third Century by the Catholic Church, but you reject all of the Teachings that were current with that same Church in the Third Century.

I always found it interesting too...The RCC set the book, preserved it...yet many protestants act like the Bible is foreign to Catholicism.  Just an observation.  

Dear Big J,

If just plain being sensible would be enough to get one into Heaven, then they would certainly have to roll out the red carpet for you.

On the Day of Judgment, if you otherwise run into difficulties, it will be remembered that you served the Lord and the Blessed Virgin Lady by giving your reasonable support to myself, their bungling but well-intentioned Servant.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (mrpopdrinker @ Nov. 08 2003,11:02)]

Quote[/b] ]Interesting that Satan should wish to do Penance for the Sins of the World exactly the same way as Christ did.  Interesting that while Protestants do nothing that Satan should obey the Injunction of Christ to "pick up your cross and follow me".

He would actually. he has certainly decieved you into thinking that it is not Yeshua but your own stripes that get you into heaven. So in this way he lures people to false mesiahs.

Quote[/b] ]So study the live of a few of the Stigmatics -- there was no wickedness in them.

A biography can say anything it wants. But I assure you that they sinned.

Quote[/b] ]They brought healing and protection to their communities.

So did Kenneth Hagin so should you follow him? A demon can tell a demon to leave. Therefore they could heal and not be of God.

Quote[/b] ]But somehow Paul is Divine

Divine, no. A man of God yes.

Quote[/b] ]It seems that Christ never said a sensible word until he began to speak through Paul, when, suddenly, everything He said was somehow different.

You probably just cant descern Paul.

The basis for everything you say is from Paul.

Nothing you believe is from the Gospels.

Christ gave us the Criteria for identifying Evil -- He practically drew a Picture of Paul.

Now, what you are going through presently is called Denial. No ones mind is ever changed instanteneously. However, as the days and weeks go by you will see that you have been the one who has been deceived. It will become clearer and cleaer that there is a difference between the teachings of the Holy Gospels and the doctrines of Paul, and you will ever more clearly discern the Satanic tendencies inherent to the Paulian Letters.

but all this takes time to sink in.

 

[Thaddius]

Quote[/b] ]Christ gave us the Criteria for identifying Evil -- He practically drew a Picture of Paul.

Now, what you are going through presently is called Denial. No ones mind is ever changed instanteneously. However, as the days and weeks go by you will see that you have been the one who has been deceived. It will become clearer and cleaer that there is a difference between the teachings of the Holy Gospels and the doctrines of Paul, and you will ever more clearly discern the Satanic tendencies inherent to the

I know asking you to pick up the Bible and read it might be too much Leo, but would you care to share Scripture on where Christ and Paul contradicted each other? You keep saying that he did, but he never contradicted the teachings of Christ.

Cory

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (LionOfJudah @ Nov. 08 2003,11:55)]Ok Leo because i am a sinner i am going to live on a piece of plywood that is 5X8 on top of a 50 foot pole, and do nothing but "suffer" for Christ, and deny my self because i am a sinner.... Hi Pharisee how are you doing today. Dening yourself is nothing super big or hard, its simply doing little things day by day, helping someone out in the office when you could leave an hr early, or you getting up at night to take care of your crying child, or making dinner before your wife is home.
dening your self is teaching you to be a servant and to love others as Christ loved us, because after all Jesus is our one and only savior, but he was a servant. God had to learn how to submit and yield to others wills, He never knew what it was like, because Jesus was God, and He had to listen to the Father, God(Jesus) had to learn how to submit to anothers will, but God has always been a servant, look in the Old Testament when the people grumble about not having food, or always having the same thing..

Dear Lion,

If denying oneself is not difficult, then why does everyone have such a hard time doing it? Why is it that nominal Christians abandon Christ and flock to Paul, simply to gain the cover of not having to deny themselves -- that they may partake of Paul's Easy Salvation?

No, if Penance is not difficult, then it is not Penance. If it doesn't hurt then it is not Pain. You can't whip yourself with a Cotton Ball and expect the same outcome as a Saint who uses barbed steel and broken glass beads.

Is such hard penance necessary? Yes. While there is still Sin, it must be atoned for. Luckily God does not particularly care who pays for what, as long as the bill finally gets paid. Denying yourself in little things simply does not carry the same freight as denying yourself in big things. A 40 day fast IS better than skipping lunch.

Now, penance does need to be regulated. After Our Lady of Fatima (Our Lady of the Rosary, is how She Herself prefer that Apparition be called) showed the three little children, Her Seers, a vision of Hell, they began to do a very strict daily routine of penance. These little children took to binding their waists with coarse rope pulled very tightly. Our Lady felt it necessary to intercede and told the Children that they could wear the Ropes during the day, but that they must take them off at night so that they could sleep well, to keep up their strength for what remained to be done.

Hard penance is good, but we must hold back enough that it not be simply a slow suicide.

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ Nov. 08 2003,6:17)]

Quote[/b] ]Christ gave us the Criteria for identifying Evil -- He practically drew a Picture of Paul.

Now, what you are going through presently is called Denial.  No ones mind is ever changed instanteneously.  However, as the days and weeks go by you will see that you have been the one who has been deceived.  It will become clearer and cleaer that there is a difference between the teachings of the Holy Gospels and the doctrines of Paul, and you will ever more clearly discern the Satanic tendencies inherent to the

I know asking you to pick up the Bible and read it might be too much Leo, but would you care to share Scripture on where Christ and Paul contradicted each other?  You keep saying that he did, but he never contradicted the teachings of Christ.

Cory

Hi Thaddius,

If Paul is simply a redundant version of Christ, then why are all Protestant Doctrines scourced out of Paul's Arguments dismissive of the Law and Works.

Thaddius, just read the Sermon of the Mount from Mathew. It makes it very clear that we must not only follow the Law but exceed the Law. this is very different from the Pauline Doctrine that Christ died to dispell the Law, that Righteousness is a boast, and the Good Works are a debt held against us.

Christ wanted a Unified Church. After spending his Entire Ministry being careful not to appeal to the Gentile "Dogs" as He referred to the Non-Jews, He allowed, at his Ascension, that The New Dispensation could be extended to the Whole World -- but in the context of a Unity.

Then in the Book of Acts and in the Pauline Letters we find Paul separating from The Church by walking out on his Sponsor Barnabas over an argument with Mark. Paul set up his own Church in Greece. Disciples reported as much to Peter in Jerusalem, who said "Paul can say whatever he wants as long as he pays his dues". Luke wrote the book of Acts. Earlier in the Gospel he wrote he tells us that Christ told Peter "Satan, get behind me, for you care only about the things of the World and have no interest in the Things of Heaven".

Galatians is Paul's confession for the hatred that he feels for the True Apostles.

It think it is in Corintheans that Paul brags about how he is Pope of the Church of the Gentiles while Peter only has the Church of the Circumcized -- refering to Christ's True Church by their penises.

There is also the matter of Church and State. Christ spoke tirelessly about The Kingdom of Heaven. Paul wrote to the Romans -- the Capital of the Empire -- and declared that God authorized all Status Quo Political Authority. If you could cut enough throats to usurp a Throne, then it was God's Will that you have absolute Power, even over The Church. Christ taught to "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars, but unto God the things that are God's". Paul took away these things of God and gave them unconditionally to Secular Political Power. It was on this quote from Paul that the German Barons declared their Civil War against the Holy Roman Empire and destroyed Christendom, and opened the door to the rampant Atheism we see all about us today. It is this quote from Paul that makes George Bush laugh as he tells his cronies that "The Bible says" he outranks the Pope.

No, if you can't tell the difference between Paul and Christ, you simply aren't paying attention.

Oh, and another thing. No Saint but Paul, and certainly none of the Real Apostles ever said that "it is not my words, but Christ who speaks through me". Why is it that in all of Christain History Paul is unique in saying this? My opinion is that this is not how the Holy Spirit works, or it would have worked the same way in the other Saints and the True Apostles who were anoited by Jesus Christ Himself. So Paul was lying. Sung Mung Moon of the Unification Church says the same thing as Paul, and nobody believes him. Why then believe Paul?

Again, read the Book of Acts. the Church of Jerusalem was doing its utmost to shut down the Church of Paul -- we can read all of Paul's accusations against "false Apostles" -- he was talking about the Real Apostles. We can see in the Letters of John and James the refutations for Paul's doctrines. But then, a famine came upon Judah, brought by Satan, and Paul was able to purchase a Non-Interference Contract so that he could promote his Gentile Church without harrassment. It was a separate Church. Christ's Unity was broken.

when the Romans marched on Juda in 70 AD and dispersed the Jerusalem Christian Church, the Gentile Church, with all the institutional Anti-Semiticism embedded within it, persecuted the Jewish Christians out of existence. What remains is the Church of Paul.

Our Lady stayed with the Church and assured that the Teachings of Christ and the Sacraments were respected. The Further from Greece, the more the Church appreciated Our Lady's respect for the Gospel of Christ and ignored the heretical and divisive letters of Paul. Paul was largely swept to the background, except for the large factor of the Church being constitutionally Anti-Semitic (which must have brought great sorrow to Our Lady who was, afterall, a Jewish Girl). It was with the Reformation that the Gospels were utterly rejected and the Church of Paul reasserted in its full Satanic force.

 

[Big J]

Thank you Leo.

"would you care to share Scripture on where Christ and Paul contradicted each other"
*cough* the law *cough* (Jesus never said that the law was rescended after he died.)

 

[Guest]

Quote[/b] (Big J @ Nov. 09 2003,3:55)]Thank you Leo.  

"would you care to share Scripture on where Christ and Paul contradicted each other"
*cough*  the law *cough*  (Jesus never said that the law was rescended after he died.)

Big J,

I wanted to say the same thing as you, and I do have a HUGE vocabulary, but once in awhile a word simply escapes me, and I couldn't think of "r e s c e n d e d" to save my life. I always use the future suppositive tense though (sounds more pompous) "Jesus never said that the law should be rescended after he died."

 

[Thaddius]

I would just like to thank you both for sharing all those wonderful passages that contradict each other. It is clear to me that neither of you must have opened a Bible and read it anytime recently.

Nice attempt at a brief overview though Leo. Perhaps you should read it as a whole and not just pick out passages that validate your stance. Maybe then you will understand the teachings.

Cory

 

[mrpopdrinker]

Quote[/b] ]"Jesus never said that the law should be rescended after he died."

Neither did Paul. If he did please give me scriptures instead of insults.

Quote[/b] ]The basis for everything you say is from Paul.

Yup.

Quote[/b] ]Nothing you believe is from the Gospels

It is the other way around.

Quote[/b] ]No ones mind is ever changed instanteneously.

It only does when proof is given.

 

[CCGR]

there is no more need for atonement or pennace, Jesus paid for it already