http://www.comcast.net/News/DOMESTI...mns/646925fd-4837-44fb-a73d-1e5f529144c5.html
Sadly, this is hardly surprising.
Sadly, this is hardly surprising.
Gay Episcopal Bishop
- Thread starter timor
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Rand NobleBlade
Guest
The presbeterian church has also agreaed to alow homosexuals into thier levels of leadership. I have no problem with homosexuals being in church, for they need to hear the Word just as much as you and I. But when we start alowing those who practice a lifestyle that goes against what our belifes state is opening a door for a great weakening of the church. Each denomination should look at the first chapters of Rev. and ask what things they are doing right and what things the Lord may be holding agiasnt them, as should we all as christians.
take care and God bless
Rand NobleBlade
Paladin
take care and God bless
Rand NobleBlade
Paladin
Ultima Avatar
New Member
"But God would want us to let gays speak for Him!"
This is sick. But I've heard of it for a month or so now.
This is sick. But I've heard of it for a month or so now.
P
pieman3141
Guest
does being gay include practicing homosexuality?
or does being gay only mean being attracted to other men?
What's the view here?
My op:
1. Gay/Lesbian: To like the same 'gender'. May or may not practice homosexuality (could be 100% celibate, and that's fine, IMO). You can't choose who you're attracted to. you just are.
However... gender.. is an ugly word now. what about transsexuals? transgendered people? or hermaphrodites? What about them? are they entitled to the same sexual descriptions we give to "regular" people (WRT gender)?
or does being gay only mean being attracted to other men?
What's the view here?
My op:
1. Gay/Lesbian: To like the same 'gender'. May or may not practice homosexuality (could be 100% celibate, and that's fine, IMO). You can't choose who you're attracted to. you just are.
However... gender.. is an ugly word now. what about transsexuals? transgendered people? or hermaphrodites? What about them? are they entitled to the same sexual descriptions we give to "regular" people (WRT gender)?
rizz
New Member
Well certainly once u become a christian after being homosexual.. practicing it is a big NO.
As for it being "the way you are", i guess there are 2 schools of thought in general..
1. It is how you are. You are ok being a christian as long as you do not act on your temptation. Paralleled with sex before marriage i guess. As long as you dont practice etc.. you cant help what you feel.
2. That it is something that is worked into a person by the devil to pervert how love is supposed to be seen. In the same way as BDSM etc.. In such it can be delivered upon meeting with Christ.
Now to be honest i dont know which of those is true. To be honest i have to go with the second one. Man was not designed to be attracted to man. We are made in Gods image. The mind is not a safe place though in this day and age. Media and peer pressure can make kids/teens believe pretty much anything they like. And once your into it.. your in. Same as drugs/porn/whatever. Having had a problem in the past with self-harm (and having seen friends delivered from addiction) i can say it is simply God who delivers from these kinds of things.
But still its not a watertight case is it..These things though connected to our basic drives arent really the same as the gender we find attractive. Still.. if its in Gods book that its wrong i go with the fact it can be put right.
As for it being "the way you are", i guess there are 2 schools of thought in general..
1. It is how you are. You are ok being a christian as long as you do not act on your temptation. Paralleled with sex before marriage i guess. As long as you dont practice etc.. you cant help what you feel.
2. That it is something that is worked into a person by the devil to pervert how love is supposed to be seen. In the same way as BDSM etc.. In such it can be delivered upon meeting with Christ.
Now to be honest i dont know which of those is true. To be honest i have to go with the second one. Man was not designed to be attracted to man. We are made in Gods image. The mind is not a safe place though in this day and age. Media and peer pressure can make kids/teens believe pretty much anything they like. And once your into it.. your in. Same as drugs/porn/whatever. Having had a problem in the past with self-harm (and having seen friends delivered from addiction) i can say it is simply God who delivers from these kinds of things.
But still its not a watertight case is it..These things though connected to our basic drives arent really the same as the gender we find attractive. Still.. if its in Gods book that its wrong i go with the fact it can be put right.
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Ahh...this is in dispute: I believe that you choose who you like...and what kind of sexuality you prefer.
FOR instance: right now...I am totally straight (I will remain straight, just so you know). BUT, in just a moment, I could say: "Girls suck. Guys are more understanding." Then I ditch my love for the ladies, head out to the local gay bar and hook up with a guy. There. I just turned from straight to gay in a moment, and I made a choice too. Nothing genetic about it. And I believe that's how many, if not all, of these cases are.
Now here's a toughie: you're gay, become a Christian, can't act on those impulses anymore to be gay...how about this: you're Christian, straight, but really feel you shouldn't act on those impulses for onanism anymore...is it wrong or right? Fornication in any way is against God...Christian or not. Gay sex is strictly forbidden from God, and to THINK that you would have a gay preacher come up...oh man, Elmer Gantry never prepared us for that.
The point is thus: act as God wills you to act, and cast away sins and temptations and make yourselves right with God. Or, if you can't do that, stay away from the world and be a self-flagellating monk.
FOR instance: right now...I am totally straight (I will remain straight, just so you know). BUT, in just a moment, I could say: "Girls suck. Guys are more understanding." Then I ditch my love for the ladies, head out to the local gay bar and hook up with a guy. There. I just turned from straight to gay in a moment, and I made a choice too. Nothing genetic about it. And I believe that's how many, if not all, of these cases are.
Now here's a toughie: you're gay, become a Christian, can't act on those impulses anymore to be gay...how about this: you're Christian, straight, but really feel you shouldn't act on those impulses for onanism anymore...is it wrong or right? Fornication in any way is against God...Christian or not. Gay sex is strictly forbidden from God, and to THINK that you would have a gay preacher come up...oh man, Elmer Gantry never prepared us for that.
The point is thus: act as God wills you to act, and cast away sins and temptations and make yourselves right with God. Or, if you can't do that, stay away from the world and be a self-flagellating monk.
MeanMrMustard
New Member
Is this a joke or are you seriously that out of touch with reality? You think people can just on a whim suddenly change their entire sexual orientation? Why would anyone choose to actually be gay? With the persecution they face in this country. Or why would anyone choose to be attracted to children? It may be impossible to know everything about the science of attraction, but one thing is for sure, for most people it is NOT a concious choice.[b said:
G
Guest
Guest
I don't mind at all, as long as he's happy and his happiness reflects to all people, then everyone is happy, along with god!
rizz
New Member
[b said:
Are you sure you know what you are saying there? Or do you mean something else cos as it reads that is a very off statement.
Demon Hunter
New Member
God is not happy because man is happy. He is please when we do the things His word tells us to, and refrain from the things we are cleary told not to do, like homosexuality.[b said:
CCGR
Member
from this bishops life is sounds like a choice...he is dovorced with two kids...he was hetero at one time...well at least for every kid he made
Ultima Avatar
New Member
Yes Mustard. I do. I do believe it is that easy. In fact, if I could find a willing volunteer to sacrifice his heterosexuality for homosexuality, I could prove it to you, but, alas, you're left with the idea of choice, rather than genetics, much as I know that repulses you. People prey on children because they want to...not because their sexual orientation makes them like the younger kind. Or if that's true, then we really should have no problem with them having consensual actions of such with children. Really. Pedophiles are just another kind of sexual preference.
It's choice. I choose to be straight, and it is in our nature to be straight, to cleave unto women and be one. It is our nature. It is against normality to go queer. THAT is a choice. ANd it is a choice for a gay to go straight.
It's choice. I choose to be straight, and it is in our nature to be straight, to cleave unto women and be one. It is our nature. It is against normality to go queer. THAT is a choice. ANd it is a choice for a gay to go straight.
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pieman3141
Guest
sorru UA, BUT:
Straight --> Gay is very VERY difficult, for me. I simply cannot do it. everything that is a part of me says a big fat NO!!! to being gay.
I think gays feel the same way, in the above instance. I dunno. I don't wanan go off spouting crap when its wrong.
This whole issue is a big one. Best thing we can do is pray and ask for guidance, IMO.
Straight --> Gay is very VERY difficult, for me. I simply cannot do it. everything that is a part of me says a big fat NO!!! to being gay.
I think gays feel the same way, in the above instance. I dunno. I don't wanan go off spouting crap when its wrong.
This whole issue is a big one. Best thing we can do is pray and ask for guidance, IMO.
Grand Master
New Member
Ultima, if you really believe that you could go from being a heterosexual one day to a homosexual the next then perhaps this speaks to your true sexual orientation.
Saxamaphone
New Member
I do believe that Ultima was trying to make a point that being a homosexual is pretty much a choice one makes. We all make choices, sometimes there are many factors that go into making a choice that to an outside third party, the decision is one that they would never consider.[b said:
Lets take for example, the Columbine shooters. The official story as told by the news agencies was that these boys were continuously the victims of bullies. For the most part, school bullying is hardly enough to get people to retaliate so drastically. The two boys at Columbine, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold professed faith in Satan and Nazism frequently and were not taken seriously – that is until after their killing spree. Now, according to their religion, training and upbringing, the decision to kill wasn't that hard of one to make.
For those who support gay lifestyles probably would not find it very hard to decide to give it a whirl either. As time goes on and more people accept lies as truths (its genetic and you are not responsible for your choices), the easier it will be for them to choose to become gay.
For those who beleive that there is a way to live life and that there is a handback written by the creator of life, the decision to become gay is much harder.
MeanMrMustard
New Member
I'm curious how you are so confident that it's not genetic, my belief has always been that there's no way to know for sure. Maybe it's determined from birth, maybe it depends on your experiances and upbringing, maybe some of both. I'm not going to jump on and call one outright lies, I like to have evidence BEFORE I make statements like that.[b said:
I have to admit, I haven't read through all the above posts. I've skimmed, but the text is small and i don't want to sit closer.
That said....
I've been following this story, and hmm.....this is what the "church" is.
So, at the risk of sounding like I actually believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...here's what His Word says.
Oh, it's a big chunk of text, btw, so hang on.
Romans 1:22 - whenever
Professing themselves to be wise (man, ain't that like people?), they became fools, and changed the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (we are God....God is in nature. sound familar?)
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (it'll make me feel good, so I'm gonna do it. It's my own body anyway, so who cares?)
Who changed the truth of God into a lie (don't even get me started on that), and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (you know there are people that fight for the rights of animals, but if you stand up in a public forum and proclaim Christ, you're shot down? sometimes, literally)
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections (let's call it what it is): for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Okay, so......doesn't it sound like our God is against homosexuality?
See, I know bout temptation. Some of us are tempted to drink alot, some of us are tempted to speed through kid infested neighborhoods, some of us really want to let loose a stream of curses when we're offended by whatever, and yes, some people are tempted to go against the natural use of the opposite sex.
Living in knowledgable sin is different than being tempted.
Would you choose an alcoholic or chronically angry person to be your moral leader? would you choose a wife beater or a pathological liar? would you choose a compulsive gambler or a thief?
That said....
I've been following this story, and hmm.....this is what the "church" is.
So, at the risk of sounding like I actually believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob...here's what His Word says.
Oh, it's a big chunk of text, btw, so hang on.
Romans 1:22 - whenever
Professing themselves to be wise (man, ain't that like people?), they became fools, and changed the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. (we are God....God is in nature. sound familar?)
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: (it'll make me feel good, so I'm gonna do it. It's my own body anyway, so who cares?)
Who changed the truth of God into a lie (don't even get me started on that), and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. (you know there are people that fight for the rights of animals, but if you stand up in a public forum and proclaim Christ, you're shot down? sometimes, literally)
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections (let's call it what it is): for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature.
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
Okay, so......doesn't it sound like our God is against homosexuality?
See, I know bout temptation. Some of us are tempted to drink alot, some of us are tempted to speed through kid infested neighborhoods, some of us really want to let loose a stream of curses when we're offended by whatever, and yes, some people are tempted to go against the natural use of the opposite sex.
Living in knowledgable sin is different than being tempted.
Would you choose an alcoholic or chronically angry person to be your moral leader? would you choose a wife beater or a pathological liar? would you choose a compulsive gambler or a thief?
rizz
New Member
wow i leave this topic for one day and it gets weird..Surely everyone is against homosexuality cos thats what God says.
I dont think it really matters if its a choice or not. The point is that Jesus saves.. he has come to make you a new creation.. I take this to mean what it says.. If you did stuff that contradicts the bible before you got saved, then it can be gone when you do.. Regradless of what it is.
or something like that.. thanx for the verses stormy i couldnt remember where it was.
I dont think it really matters if its a choice or not. The point is that Jesus saves.. he has come to make you a new creation.. I take this to mean what it says.. If you did stuff that contradicts the bible before you got saved, then it can be gone when you do.. Regradless of what it is.
or something like that.. thanx for the verses stormy i couldnt remember where it was.
www_rlxc_com
New Member
This entire subject makes me sick, the Idea that anyone would even think for a second that it is "OK" for a openly homosexual to be in any level of leadership in a church is sickning to me.
If my church EVER allowed even a homosexual to be in charge of youth ministry, or ANY leadership I would leave immidiately. One of the things I heard on the radio was that one of his arguments for getting into the chruch was "the bible is from a culture that is irrelivant to us"
That is what our church leaders is saying? as far as I am concerned Episcopal`s are no different than Mormons or Jehovawitnesses now, they are lost and need a savior.
If my church EVER allowed even a homosexual to be in charge of youth ministry, or ANY leadership I would leave immidiately. One of the things I heard on the radio was that one of his arguments for getting into the chruch was "the bible is from a culture that is irrelivant to us"
That is what our church leaders is saying? as far as I am concerned Episcopal`s are no different than Mormons or Jehovawitnesses now, they are lost and need a savior.