Communion Wine or Grapejuice

[Wolfeman]

Which version of NIV are you referring to? Each one I checked at http://www.biblegateway.com showed the passage in 3:3 as "not given to drunkenness."

Correct. The watering down I referred to was in relation to the King James 1611 and the qualifications for Pastor and Deacon.

In the NIV verse 3 is for the qualification for Pastor and is translated "not given to drunkenness". In the King Jame 1611 it's "not given to wine"

Verse 8 is for qualifications for Deacons. In the NIV it's translated "not indulging in much wine". In the King James 1611 it's "not given to much wine".

Not given or not indulging in much wine could be understood to basically mean the same thing. I have seen "given" explained as meaning controlled but for the sake of argument we'll leave it as indulging or drinking.

"Not given to wine" when looked at in the context of "not given to much wine" does not mean the same as "not given to drunkenness". In my opinion.

 

[Patriot]

From the Greek word "paroinon" meaning: given to wine, drunken. (source, alt source) The KJV and NIV essentially say the same thing.

Verse 8 tells a similar story though different wording is used in the Greek:
"prosechontas pollō oinō". Though my Greek is fairly non-existent so I may have changed the order (hence the references). (source, alt is broken down by Greek words: 1, 2, 3, 4)

Based on the Greek definitions and my understanding of the text I don't see any relevant difference between the KJV and the NIV. I don't see that it is telling a Deacon or Pastor to abstain from wine per say. The Greek text seems to indicate that they should not be drunk/addicted to wine.

Keep in mind that the strongest drink I have ever had is NyQuil and personally stay as far away from alcohol (with the exception of said NyQuil) as I can get.

 

[Abba San]

Your Greek may be rusty, but it is accurate.

The problem is that the KJV translates two different Greek words as "given to." The word in verse 3 means "addicted to" as the NASB translates it. The word in verse 8 means "indulge in." When combined with "much" it is describing drunkenness. Paul does the same thing in Titus. He is simply using two different phrasings to say the same thing - don't be an abuser of wine.

Your understanding is correct - according to the Greek.