Christain warriors

cc.slim

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I myself have a internal struggle with Christains openly disputing things that are of this world such as abortion and gay marriage and their equal. My question is why? We stand alone for judgement is my stance and I guess one could say I am somewhat empathetic towards the world. Is there scripture that tells us to be so outspoken. My thought is to train and guide towards yielding/molding to Gods will using Love and wisdom. Now don't get me wrong for I in no way support ways contrary to Gods will and well thats where I stop other than planting a seed. Which fyi I and my daughter made a huge impact on a young lady who was sexually confused and she has just recently excepted Christ and was recently baptized. She changed by what she saw in us and what we shared with her without any worldly hating but with godly love and scripture. My question is are we christain warriors fighting sin or are we humans expressing our opinions?
 
I think that we, as Christians, need to mind how we approach such subjects.
The Bible tells us that abortion is wrong, that gay marriage is wrong, and so on.

Matthew 28:19-20
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very of end of the age.

Our duty is to spread God's word to the masses. Jesus told his disciples to go out and make more disciples. I think that is our calling as well.

James 3:9-12
9With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. 11Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? 12My brothers, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

However, James points out to us that we need to watch our words carefully. We shouldn't be holding protests in front of abortion clinics, inciting riots or destroying property, spouting hatred. We need to go out and spread the word of God's love, in a loving manner. It is through love that we can lead people to the light. Hatred will only leave them in the darkness.
 
This is something that I to have struggled with. As Christians I don't believe that we can hold non-believers to the same standards as we hold ourselves to. I feel that the church has the responsiblity of being "a city on a hill." With that in mind we should stand up for what we feel is wrong, but with the understanding that we cannot hold non-believers accountable for what they do not except.
On the other hand, there are lots of people who claim to be believers, yet do not live that life. Jesus told us how to confront people who are believers and in sin. Go to them, if they reject the correction, then take 2-3 and try again, and if they reject it again take it before the church. Jesus wants us to stand up for what is truth. It is the truth that brought people to him. He didn't shy away from the hard questions. How can you love someone and not share the truth?
 
Edmund Burke (attributed):

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing

Something we should fight for , some we shouldn't

This is the personal choice for us each, and i do not have the right to dictates anothers life who does not affect me mentally, emotional, or phyically,

But I can always share my feeling thoughts and opinion
 
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This is something that I to have struggled with. As Christians I don't believe that we can hold non-believers to the same standards as we hold ourselves to. I feel that the church has the responsiblity of being "a city on a hill." With that in mind we should stand up for what we feel is wrong, but with the understanding that we cannot hold non-believers accountable for what they do not except.

We should hold them to God's standards. Regardless of whether they accept it or not, they are still accountable to it. If I refuse to accept traffic laws, I will still be punished for breaking them.
 
wOOt [QUOTEJames 3:9-12][/QUOTE] Bonk :D
We should hold them to God's standards.
wish we could but life choices is left to the individual be it right or wrong. As for punishment yeh thats cover'd or is it?
 
It is not our place to judge and/or hold non-believers accountable. That job belongs to God alone.

However, we can tell them that no man on Earth (sans Jesus, obviously) can live up to God's standard, about forgiveness, grace, mercy, and the Good News of Jesus Christ.
 
Edit: Warning::: I've decided that the following post smacks of arrogance on my part. I'm not going to change it to cover my butt, but keep in mind that I've repented of my attitude problems on this post. Other posts from me on this thread SHOULD be much more rational. Thanks for your mercy and understanding.


Woah... this is a topic near to my heart so I'm gonna have to watch my soapboxing.

Whups, looks like I'm already standing up on top of it. Sorry :(

Homosexuality and Abortion and profanity and a host of other things are WRONG. The Bible says so. But many Christians don't even know WHY they are wrong.

Oh boy, my forum toon just flagged /rant. I guess I'm in a rant zone.

/rant: 1. A LOT of Christians run around making statements like "Being Gay is EVIL!!!" but they don't spend the time thinking it through to see why God would think that things like that are wrong. FYI just to clue you in if you haven't caught it yet, homosexuality is wrong because it is Sex outside of marriage. That's right, it is no different than heterosexual promiscuity in God's eyes. The punishments for homosexuality perscribed in the Bible parallel those for a person who is having sex outside of marriage.

2. Our aversion to hypocrisy prolly comes from the fact that we have a habit of being hypocritical about this sort of thing. We're willing to accept the people around us who shack up and then come to church, but the only time we aren't shooting at gays is when we're reloading. The difference? Promiscuity is a "weekness," but homosexuality makes me squeemish. It's different cuz it is something I wouldn't do myself, so it should be abolished. Meantime, shacking up is something I could see myself doing (but for the grace of God) and so I'm much more tolerant of it.

3. Oh yeah, Jesus said that whenever you look with lust at a woman (or a man,) you are being promiscuous with him or her in your mind. So I guess that we're all a little bit to blame of promiscuity... and therefore all the other sins of the flesh.

4. Yes, I'm being offensive on purpose... but what I'm trying to say is that WE ALL NEED JESUS. When Snake_Six* says "We should hold them to God's standards," I think "OH BOY, I sincerly hope not!" God's standards are pure holiness 100% of the time, without any failing. God's punishment is an eternity of separation from him. OUCH. Thankfully God is a God of love and mercy and caring, who longs to dispense with the standards and instead treat us as his children.

Truth is, guys and ladies, every single one of us deserves Hell just as much as the gays, the lesbians, and the scared teenagers who kill their own offspring. It is ONLY by the tremendous awesome mercy of God that ANY of us are called the sons and daughters of God. Trying to hold others to out to the wrath of God that he specifically saved us from being hit by is kind of a mean sicko perversion of what God did for us.

5. There is absolutely no way (humanly) for us to know where a person stands with God. We CAN NOT point fingers at gays and say "You are going to Hell." Only God can decide that; it is His right and no one else's. The only way that we can make a call on someone's spiritual position in salvation is through the internal prompting of the Holy Spirit. Yes, we MUST follow the leading of the Holy Spirit in such matters, and so I'm not making a value judgement on other Christians based on their reaction to sins.

/rant off: So, if we can't make value judgements or tell people that they are doing things that could very potentially end in eternal separation from God (read: Hell,) what CAN we do?

Well, basically we can lead them by love. The Bible says that it is the Love of God that leads to repentence. We can stop condemning them and instead show them so much love that they can't help but be overwealmed. We shouldn't blindly act in opposition to their problems (aka riotting outside abortion clinics,) but rather we should think outside their box and come up with revolutionary new ways to bless people with God's love.



I guess this is really easy to say, so let me think of an example that half of y'all will get, and the other half may not. Lol. Cuz it's a WoW example.

In World of Warcraft, we don't have as much problems with sexual orientation as we do with GREED. Greed is everywhere... people are in the game to get the best loot fastest, even if it means burning relationships and backstabbing friends (and even spouses! )

When TF began to host our own runs, we were faced with the issue of having to build a loot system that was bulletproof and yet showed God's love. The obvious way to build a loot system would to build it in such a way that Greed would have no way to get loots away from us... you know, the one loot per person per reset rule, or something of the sort.

But you know what? That is simply responding to the problem with a nice solution -- but keeping the game in the problem's court.

Our response was to put in place a system that is actually NOT greed-proof. If you are lucky and greedy enough, under our system, you can make off with a lot of loot. And people have in fact tried to do so. After a little while, however, the fact that we are cheerfully allowing greedy people to walk off with our loot starts to get to them. They start asking us whether or not we're upset by their actions. They're astounded when we aren't. We let them come back to our runs and do it again, although they often don't do it again when they come back -- they're too amazed that we aren't even greedy when they are... You get what I'm saying? We don't judge, we don't compensate... we try avoid the problem altogether, circumvent it, and apply a huge layer of love.

Of course, this is all on a good day when we're all focussing on God and not on WoW... but once again, judgement is God's. But the proof is in the pudding: we've had greedy people nip their greed issues in the bud and start acting like they were never greedy at all. We didn't take them aside and tell them that they were jerks, or rail against their sin nature. We just let them have their way until they realized that ours was better.



Anyhow... sorry for the soapbox rant, like I said, this issue is near and dear to me. I realize that this is also an area where we all need to pray and seek God's advice, and also to educate ourselves on what God says and what the sinners are going through.

In Christ,

Neirai the (chronically) Forgiven

*Snake_Six, my brother. Please forgive me for the harsh tone that I used when talking about your comment. I do not mean to sound like I think you are a bad Christian or something. Rather, I simply think that your statement is not an accurate reflection of truth and therefore I felt the need to oppose it. However, like a true hypocrite I am not aware of whether or not it came to you by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Therefore I say, please do not count my actions as those of an enemy, but rather as those as a fellow worker who simply wishes to point out some additional information that you may have missed. Again, my words are not cannonical scripture, so please take with a grain of prayer.
 
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Neirai the Bare Durid said:
/rant: 1. A LOT of Christians run around making statements like "Being Gay is EVIL!!!" but they don't spend the time thinking it through to see why God would think that things like that are wrong. FYI just to clue you in if you haven't caught it yet, homosexuality is wrong because it is Sex outside of marriage. That's right, it is no different than heterosexual promiscuity in God's eyes. The punishments for homosexuality perscribed in the Bible parallel those for a person who is having sex outside of marriage.

Is it really just that simple? So does that mean that homosexuality doesn't upset God in the 6 states that allow gay marriage in the US?

The Bible tells us that God poured his wrath upon Sodom and Gomorrah for their wickedness and sexual immorality. Sodom was known for their hard-core sexual transgressions, including homosexual actions... hence "sodomy". If the locals in Sodom had declared homosexual marital unions legal, would God have not burned them?

I suspect there is more to it than just our legalism and what laws "Caesar" sets up for us.

And I think that "more" is the fact that in Genesis, God designed a mate for Adam, and that mate was Eve. God gave us His Word as our example... and there is no place that "Joe and Steve" created a family as the example of how we're supposed to live.
 
Neiri, while we can never know for certain, we can say, "Based upon the evidence, it looks like..."
"By their fruits ye shall know them."

1. A LOT of Christians run around making statements like "Being Gay is EVIL!!!" but they don't spend the time thinking it through to see why God would think that things like that are wrong. FYI just to clue you in if you haven't caught it yet, homosexuality is wrong because it is Sex outside of marriage. That's right, it is no different than heterosexual promiscuity in God's eyes. The punishments for homosexuality perscribed in the Bible parallel those for a person who is having sex outside of marriage.

Homosexuality is wrong, but your reason for it being wrong is well, wrong.
It's wrong because it is a violation of the natural order. God created man and woman and told them to be fruitful and multiply. Two people of the same gender cannot do the by themselves. They are in violation of God's Creation Ordinence (sp?).
 
I think we need to start a separate thread for the homosexuality debate. A lot of good points have been brought up, but there are more to be covered. Let's split this thread and look at the issue of homosexuality in depth. There are some additional Biblical passages that cover the topic.

Gen
 
Is it really just that simple? So does that mean that homosexuality doesn't upset God in the 6 states that allow gay marriage in the US?

Woah woah woah... I think I missed a statement here. My bad.

"Gay Marriage" is NOT marriage in God's eyes. Just cuz the government of Canada and 6 U.S. states say it is, doesn't mean that it is. I mean marriage as defined by God in the Bible. One man, one woman, no fooling around.

Marriage is an analogy of Christ and the church. It is supposed to show that if the Church and Christ are properly aligned, although it takes work, it has amazing fruits and is also very fulfilling. This is why the Bible calls the church "the Bride of Christ" and Jesus "the Bridegroom," and also Heaven "the Marriage Supper of the Lamb."

Sex outside of marriage, any kind of sex outside of marriage, presents the false image that we can find spiritual fulfillment without being in proper allignment with Jesus Christ.

Gay "Marriage" presents the false image that humans can find true fulfillment with other humans. In this way, it defies the natural order that God set up in the universe. (Just by way of tangent, if you think that humans not being fruitful and multiplying is a huge problem, why'd Paul say it would be better if many of us were not married? Isn't that just as bad as homosexuality, then?) This natural order is that God desires worshippers and that we need God. If we separate the two, we are pretending that we can do it on our own... and that's a bad thing.

Divorce, for that matter, presents the false image that me can just sever our relationship with God and it still be okay. For that reason God says he hates divorce.

Male/Female domination in marriage is also bad because it creates a false image that God doesn't actually love and care about us, and that humanity and God are supposed to oppose each other somehow. This also goes against the "real way things are" because God truly does love everyone.

I'm not saying "Homosexuality is okay." All the things I've listed here are really bad because they promote bald-faced lies about the relationship between God and the Church. All I was saying (I hope I'm much clearer now that I'm not rantified and have more sleep) is that I think Christians are way out of line when they judge people for sins that we, at least partially, also struggle with.

Y'know, kind of like me ranting about how Christians rant at homosexuals alot. *Sheepish look*

To recap: Gay Marriage is just politicians stringing two words together in a sentence and pretending that they change God's mind just cuz they sound nice. It doesn't change God's view on things. It certainly doesn't change the way that God created the world to work.

P.S. feel free to move this post to the new thread :)
 
Is it really just that simple? So does that mean that homosexuality doesn't upset God in the 6 states that allow gay marriage in the US?

The Bible tells us that God poured his wrath upon Sodom and Gomorrah for their wickedness and sexual immorality. Sodom was known for their hard-core sexual transgressions, including homosexual actions... hence "sodomy". If the locals in Sodom had declared homosexual marital unions legal, would God have not burned them?

I suspect there is more to it than just our legalism and what laws "Caesar" sets up for us.

And I think that "more" is the fact that in Genesis, God designed a mate for Adam, and that mate was Eve. God gave us His Word as our example... and there is no place that "Joe and Steve" created a family as the example of how we're supposed to live.

I think we can all rest assured that homosexuality is wrong for more reasons than just fornication...

Leviticus 18: 22-30
Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind. It is abomination. Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion. Defile not ye yourselves in any of these things: for in all these the nations are defiled which I cast out before you: And the land is defiled: therefore I do visit the iniquity thereof upon it, and the land itself vomiteth out her inhabitants. Ye shall therefore keep my statutes and my judgments, and shall not commit any of these abominations ; neither any of your own nation, nor any stranger that sojourneth among you: (For all these abominations have the men of the land done, which were before you, and the land is defiled; ) That the land spue not you out also, when ye defile it, as it spued out the nations that were before you. For whosoever shall commit any of these abominations , even the souls that commit them shall be cut off from among their people. Therefore shall ye keep mine ordinance, that ye commit not any one of these abominable customs, which were committed before you, and that ye defile not yourselves therein: I am the LORD your God.

Romans 1: 26-27
For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

Romans 1:32
Who, knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Leviticus 20:13
If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.


I would normally say something like "I hate to be so hard on homosexuals, but..." but I won't. You know why? Because God was hard on homosexuals. This is a sin that He would not tolerate, and our Heavenly Father personally put to death tens of thousands and more because of this atrocity.

Yes, we are to show Christian love. But the Bible also tells us to despise evil. Take the aforementioned passages how you will...
 
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