A Moral Question/Challenge

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Recent discussions have finally prompted me to finally ask a question, or alternatively present a challenge, I've been mulling over for a while.

Have you ever abstained from purchasing a popular piece of media (game, going to a movie, etc.) for purely moral reasons?

I'm NOT talking about...
1. Something you only wanted for sinful reasons (rowr, rowr, which you shouldn't be doing anyway btw).
2. Neither something where you can say later on "it wasn't really that good" and dismiss it.
3. And not something your parents kept you from getting >.< it had to be your choice.

I'm talking about entirely avoiding a mainstream purchase, something you really wanted, waited for and had to watch other people be involved with. In other words based solely on some content you found immoral you used willpower and refused to support the media with your money.

With this being a Christian forum I'd expect most of you have done this some time in your life, so good for you and consider this an encouraging thread .

If you have never done so I humble suggest you may be following everyone else without personally thinking about it. I'd advise some deep thought and prayer on the motivations for the choices you make in life. It's character building and never to late to do so .

Poll does not display response names. Nor is this poll addressed with any single individual or game in mind. You need not post what you resisted as the point of this thread is not to say anything specific is "bad", It's just to gauge the resolve of people to do better than they are.

 

[Tek7]

Does attaching SecuROM to a game count as immoral?

 

[Elader Arkon]

Does attaching SecuROM to a game count as immoral?

Yes.

 

[Keero]

A few recent ones:
Dragon Age (dark fantasy/sex)
Darksiders (lore)
Demon Souls (dark fantasy)
Bayonetta (clearly)

Big titles, but mehhhhh.

 

[Odale]

I am not going to answer this poll, not because I think the poll is badly made or anything else of that sort, but I cannot fully say yes or no to this (lol, plead the 5th! It is anonymous so even if you do answer yes or no people still don't know what you voted or even if you voted at all! ).

I honestly cannot remember the last time I forfeited seeing/buying a piece of popular media purely on moral grounds. In this case I think 'moral' needs to be defined because different people have different degrees of morality. I know that some parents of Christian gamers cringe at the fact their son or daughter plays a game with Warlocks in it (speaking of WoW of course, and this issue has happened here with previous members). CGA is affiliated with two guilds that harbor Warlocks and their dark magic. Some people see it as just a game, others see it as a dangerous influence.

Also, when this topic comes up many people immediately point to GTA4 and the rest of the series. Lots of people think it is immoral and I am one of them (sometimes) - it certainly doesn't teach kids right from wrong and it's only entertainment comes from vandalism and murder. I do not own GTA4, but I have played it. In this context, is that just as bad as owning it - I think so. Am I a bad person for playing it - no. So in this context whats the difference between playing a game you do not own that is considered immoral versus buying it for yourself?

Gerbil, I appreciate your willingness to post about this topic but morality is different for everyone.

Does attaching SecuROM to a game count as immoral?

I think it is more of an annoyance than a moral problem. When it was introduced it certainly was immoral because they didn't tell you. Now, they tell you "X" game has SecuROM on it and it is your choice to buy the game or to go without. If you don't know what SecuROM is you can certainly find out via teh interwebz.

Despite me believing that SecuROM isn't immoral, I still think it's stupid.

 

[Tek7]

So in this context whats the difference between playing a game you do not own that is considered immoral versus buying it for yourself?

I think the key difference is: Did you support the developers of a game with morally questionable content by purchasing the game? Put another way: Did you reward the developers for including that content with your money?

I think the question at the core of this poll (and I could be mistaken) is: Do Christian gamers, in general, have the strength of will to express their convictions with their wallets?

I think there are other, more complex issues that could branch off from this discussion, including whether or not some games may be permissible for some while not for others. I don't have any issue with playing Mass Effect (or haven't in my first 2.5 hours playing), but I would advise against a parent buying the game for their 12-year old since it deals with some mature themes.

 

[Odale]

When I say "in this context" I took what Gerbil said for face value, meaning - I see a problem with a game and I do not buy it because I do not like the problem I see.

I didn't read into supporting publishers and rewarding them for content that I deem lewd and immoral (though I was thinking about it when I was posting).

 

[Tek7]

A few recent ones:
Dragon Age (dark fantasy/sex)
Darksiders (lore)
Demon Souls (dark fantasy)
Bayonetta (clearly)

As odd as this may sound, I think it may benefit gamers to differentiate between Western and Eastern titles for reasons I recently posted on the SoE/SOE Main forum.

I personally hold Western developers to a higher standard in terms of morally questionable content than Japanese developers. It seems like a double standard until you consider how vastly different the cultural context is between East and West.

I'm not familiar enough with Dragon Age to know how pervasive sex and sexuality is in the game, but "sex" is a small word with a tremendous range of possibilities. Does the game include ridiculous sex mini-games like God of War II or does it responsibly portray sexuality as an important aspect of human nature with far-reaching consequences?

There's a JRPG (Japanese RPG) that deals with mature themes such as self-harm (i.e. cutting), how we deal with the idea of dying, and how we cope with the death of people we love. Would I recommend it for children? Certainly not. But I would be very upset to read a review that made it sound as though the game is encouraging players to go grab a razor and start cutting themselves.

I think we can all agree that the little ones shouldn't be playing Dragon Age, but I think there's reason to believe that BioWare doesn't tack sex onto the game in a ham-fisted attempt to sell more copies (like the GTA series after GTA2). I may not agree with the morals or world view BioWare espouses in their games, but I think it's a far cry from throwing near-pornographic material into a game just to boost profit margins at the expense of artistic integrity (yes, I'm still talking about the GTA series).

 

[The Mighty Gerbil]

Also, when this topic comes up many people immediately point to GTA4 and the rest of the series. Lots of people think it is immoral and I am one of them (sometimes) - it certainly doesn't teach kids right from wrong and it's only entertainment comes from vandalism and murder. I do not own GTA4, but I have played it. In this context, is that just as bad as owning it - I think so. Am I a bad person for playing it - no. So in this context whats the difference between playing a game you do not own that is considered immoral versus buying it for yourself?

If you can resist immorality in a game playing it may still have negative impact if in the act of playing you support it. For example if your little brother, friend, etc. watches/knows you enjoy a game with questionable morals by your silence of it's immorality you condone it because it wasn't "worth mentioning". The act of playing will be seen as an approval or at least being tolerant of something unless you state otherwise. Even if you do make a statement people will say he must not find it "so bad" if he is still playing it, just be sure you do. Given all games are imperfect there is almost always something worth mentioning.

Now when you buy a game with the knowledge it has X content in it, it means you are saying "yes I would buy a sequel if it had similar content" to its creators, thus moral standards are changed in media. Some Christians seem only concerned with "will this game cause me personally to sin" but we also need to be concerned with what we support with our money.

To be more clear what this thread is about. If you say I avoided a game but it wasn't really fun anyway or give a reason that benefits you, you aren't avoiding it based purely on moral reasons. I'm not talking about something like porn either because there is no other reason to play it except immorality. This thread is about refraining from a purchase when you know you will enjoy it, it won't personally cause you to sin and yet you don't buy it because you don't want to lend support for such creations.

I think the key difference is: Did you support the developers of a game with morally questionable content by purchasing the game? Put another way: Did you reward the developers for including that content with your money?

I think the question at the core of this poll (and I could be mistaken) is: Do Christian gamers, in general, have the strength of will to express their convictions with their wallets?

That's it but I don't just want to ask, I want to encourage them in their efforts to do so. A similar question was asked on another thread about gamers in general but this is about Christian gamers and their purchasing motivations needing to be morally based. It's about resisting the peer pressure of the masses and being uncomfortable in the spirit about playing something. As Christians none of us should be effected by marketing onslaughts or if "everyone" is playing something when we put morality on the table. What God wants > everything else and if this isn't the thought process you strive for it's time for some thought and prayer. It's an ongoing subject worth revisiting, re-enforcing every now and then.

I honestly cannot remember the last time I forfeited seeing/buying a piece of popular media purely on moral grounds. In this case I think 'moral' needs to be defined because different people have different degrees of morality. I know that some parents of Christian gamers cringe at the fact their son or daughter plays a game with Warlocks in it (speaking of WoW of course, and this issue has happened here with previous members). CGA is affiliated with two guilds that harbor Warlocks and their dark magic. Some people see it as just a game, others see it as a dangerous influence.

...morality is different for everyone.

That's exactly why I didn't want to give an exact game or definition of "moral" as people have different moral standards. While discussion of a game is excellent I'm not making the thread with the purpose to make anyone guilty about playing a specific game. Christians are not all filled with the same resolve but no matter where we are morally Christians all have one thing in common, we can do better. At the same time I want to give peace of mind to those who think they are alone in their objections while spreading awareness in what morals pervade games. I've said it before, I have seen some notable acts of Christian conviction on the forums but much seems to be geared towards "ooohh it's so super 1337 I must has" before a mention of the morality of a game. It's fine to be excited and enjoy something but BEFORE that we should ask what is the morality or lack thereof in a game, movie, etc. (youtube warning) This song keeps popping in my head . The lyrics are quite applicable so I linked to a vid of one explicitly showing them. To quote...

Let's think about it and let's think together and
Let's think about what we can do to make it better

 

[Atown]

most popular games that have come out and some movies as of late

 

[Nazgul]

Dragons age.- I loved this game however there was no way avoiding certin themes such as working with demons, or those that advocated them, So it made me feal uneasy and I had to return it.

Music is a big one. Befor I was a christian i listened to manson, cob, cof, and others but now I just cant listen to them due to there lyrics.

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

Dragons age.- I loved this game however there was no way avoiding certin themes such as working with demons, or those that advocated them, So it made me feal uneasy and I had to return it.

Music is a big one. Befor I was a christian i listened to manson, cob, cof, and others but now I just cant listen to them due to there lyrics.

You never have to work with the Demons in the game, you can always choose to destroy them.

 

[Neirai the Forgiven]

Remember, however, that if you feel convicted by your conscience, drop it, and don't look back.

I'm pretty sure phantom is right; BioWare is always about choices, so I'd be surprised about them giving you no choice but to work with the demons. That said, for some Christians, you shouldn't even play games that have that option.