The "former" Christian is...

The "former" Christian is...

  • a Christian who has renounced his faith

    Votes: 26 59.1%

  • someone who was never saved to begin with

    Votes: 15 34.1%

  • Doesn't matter. Six of one, half a dozen of the other

    Votes: 1 2.3%

  • Why do you make these polls so hard?!?

    Votes: 2 4.5%
  • Total voters
    44
on... topic... what is this, O N T O P I C? me dont know this things...
 
E. Both/Either

A "former Christian" cold be saved or could never have been saved. There are some who go through the motions, never having believed, and others who are prodigal sons.

I originally thought one could lose one's salvation. Years later, I came to understand that one cannot; it is sealed. I honestly could not explain either argument right now.
 
I believe it is possible to renounce your faith and therefore lose your salvation.


Hebrews 6:4-6

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
 
RoloX2 said:
E. Both/Either

A "former Christian" cold be saved or could never have been saved. There are some who go through the motions, never having believed, and others who are prodigal sons.

I originally thought one could lose one's salvation. Years later, I came to understand that one cannot; it is sealed. I honestly could not explain either argument right now.
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I agree. I can't really explain it well (though i have tried :) ) but i know that my salvation is God's work not mine. He has chosen to save me and nothing i can do will make him change his mind or unforgive me.
 
My favoreit verse is Romans 8 where is says that i believe nothing will be able to seperate me from the love of Christ Jesus. I believe this includes myself. On my own i would always choose to stray from God. If God does not prevent me i would leave him for sin at every turn. It is by God's Grace i am saved. I can do nothing that will make him love me any less.
 
RoloX2 said:
E. Both/Either

A "former Christian" cold be saved or could never have been saved. There are some who go through the motions, never having believed, and others who are prodigal sons.

I originally thought one could lose one's salvation. Years later, I came to understand that one cannot; it is sealed. I honestly could not explain either argument right now.
Click to expand...

well you better back yourself up somehow.... cause it looks like what your saying is that after you are a Christian life is a free ride. I personally can not see how that is right. so you "accept" Christ and then as long as you meant it from your heart, you can do what ever you like? i dunno...

Now granted, if you really meant it from your heart, then you wouldn't go off and mess your life up. But please do back this up
 
mist_01 said:
My favorite verse is Romans 8 where is says that i believe nothing will be able to seperate me from the love of Christ Jesus. I believe this includes myself.
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Romans 8:37-39

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


********


I know that is a common verse to explain OSAS (Once Saved Always Saved). I tend to believe it means that nothing outside ourselves can separate us from Christ. In the same way that no one can force us to come to Christ, no one can separate us from Christ.



But, since it is necessary for us to believe to be saved, we are the only ones who can separate ourselves from God. It seems that if we can choose to live for God we can also choose to live separate from him.


2 Corinthians 5:15-17


15 And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again.

16 So from now on we regard no one from a worldly point of view. Though we once regarded Christ in this way, we do so no longer. 17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!


********

I believe that you must remain in Christ, through faith, in order to be saved.



However, I think that their are very few instances that could separate us from God once we are saved. Many of us have been prodigals at some point in our lives and have returned into the arms of a welcoming Father. God knows our hearts and knows we would return.



But if someone hardenes their hearts to the point that they reject Jesus and his work on the cross, what makes them any different from the unsaved?



For example, blasphemy of the holy spirit is said to be the only unforgivable sin. What if someone who was initially saved, has turned from God to the point that he commits that sin?


Do we then just assume that he was never saved to begin with? Since we cannot see into each others hearts we cannot be certain. Is it possible that he rejected Christ even though he was saved initially? I think it could be. Now will God actually allow that to happen to one of his children? That I don't know. But I believe it is possible.


It is just that there is something about OSAS that strikes me as arrogant/presumptuous. And I cannot help but notice that there are admonitions throughout the bible about not straying, keeping the faith, etc. and I assume they are there for a reason.


This is strictly my opinion FWIW. I am fairly new as a Christian and am always willing to learn. Personally I would love to believe in OSAS, I just keep having doubts.
 
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sdenotter said:
well you better back yourself up somehow.... cause it looks like what your saying is that after you are a Christian life is a free ride. I personally can not see how that is right. so you "accept" Christ and then as long as you meant it from your heart, you can do what ever you like? i dunno...

Now granted, if you really meant it from your heart, then you wouldn't go off and mess your life up. But please do back this up
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But thats just it. Christ did give us a free ride. We did not deserve it. Christ gave it to us out of Grace alone. We don't have to earn it. However, agreed that if you have Christ in your life it is impossible to live unchanged. If Christ is in your life he will have an effect and you will want to live you life for him.
 
mist_01 said:
But thats just it. Christ did give us a free ride. We did not deserve it. Christ gave it to us out of Grace alone. We don't have to earn it.
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Yes, salvation is a "license to sin".

Generally, that's now how it plays out, though.

I love it when non-believers try to thwart the morality of the Bible by saying "So....then....you can, like, accept Christ.....then....go out and murder a bunch of people.....and still go to Heaven?"

"Yes."

<jaw drop...stereotypical pre-conceptions of Christians now destroyed...they are now ready to listen to the message of salvation>

Our deeds have no impact on our salvation...and that is a Very Good Thing for all of us.
 
:) agreed. Our deeds don't matter when it comes to salvation! If we are saved we probably won't go out and murder people since Christ in our lives. However, if we did, we still would be children of God. Our deed are a means of praising God and witnessing to others but they have nothing to do with salvation
 
RoloX2 said:
Yes, salvation is a "license to sin".

Generally, that's now how it plays out, though.

I love it when non-believers try to thwart the morality of the Bible by saying "So....then....you can, like, accept Christ.....then....go out and murder a bunch of people.....and still go to Heaven?"

"Yes."

<jaw drop...stereotypical pre-conceptions of Christians now destroyed...they are now ready to listen to the message of salvation>

Our deeds have no impact on our salvation...and that is a Very Good Thing for all of us.
Click to expand...

Mmm, I don't know if they'd react exactly that way, but it's possible if instead of just saying "yes" you said "yes, because they'd be forgiven... just like anyone can."

Or something. I've been running on a lot of caffeine this last week, so I'm out of it.
 
Or perhaps a better answer: IF you were a Christian, you wouldn't WANT to go out and murder a bunch of people.
 
Wash. said:
Or perhaps a better answer: IF you were a Christian, you wouldn't WANT to go out and murder a bunch of people.
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WRONG! There have been many times when I've wanted to lash out and beat someone to... well, I can't really end that statement without something offensive, so use your imagination. When my son is misbehaving, I sometimes have thoughts that involve me doing him harm.

I have a rage inside me that flares up now and then. However, the rage is controlled... not even by the fact that I'm a Christian, but because I realize that I will cause myself more harm by acting on these urges. Being a Christian doesn't take away temptation, it simply makes us more constantly aware of it and it's implications, and gives us an additional strength to fall back on when ours fails... and also gives us a second chance when we inevitably do fail.
 
Aye... the way I see it, is the Christian knows better, and has strength through Christ, so we would hope he wouldn't go on a murderous rampage... (but you do get the occasional who says God told him to do so.... I'm thinking that may just be an excuse for something deeper though)
 
Jesus Loves You Lots said:
my view on this is if u live your life like u can losee ur salvation u never have to worry about if u dont
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I kind of like this idea. I heard a story of a Jewish man who had his place in front of a fireing squd taken by another man. When asked how it had changed his life he responded that he lived his life in light of the man's sacrifice.

On a side note it seems in consistent to suggest that we can both be given our salvation from God as a free gift and that we are choosen by him for salvation and yet be able to loose this salvation. Could I suggest though that 1st centry people had know problem holding contradiction as equally true. Indeed, being able to happily live with some of the uncertainties of Christianity is one of Gorden Allport's factors of a mature Christian.
 
Romans 8:38,39
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I believe that nothing in the future can take me away from Christ. Nothing. Not even a choice I make.
 
Matthew 8:21
"Not all people who sounds religious are really godly. They may refer to me as 'Lord,' but they still won't enter the Kingdom of Heaven. The decisive issue is is whether they obey my Father in heaven."
I just noticed that it says 'Lord, [COMMA]' as in letter, or adressing...i'll have to check other versions to see if it was a typo
 
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