Speaking in tongues: a discussion

[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff

[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff

New Member
Yes, there is a religious discussion board, but this is something that has been brought up in our discussion here on the GW boards more than a few times-- speaking in tongues, being slain in the spirit, etc. Besides, most of you don't go there anyway.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this subject. Before we start, however, a few guidelines:
1. There is no wrong answer as long as your position is Biblically based.
2. There will be no, and I repeat, NO bashing of other's opinions. It's OK to disagree and ask clarification questions, but do so on the basis of interpretation of Scripture and your experiences, keeping in mind that other's experiences and interpretations might be, and probably are, different and no less valid than your own.
3. This is a test. If we can keep it civl, I don't lock the thread and we can do more like this when they come up.
4. Don't take things too seriously.

So, the question: Why do or why don't you believe that speaking in tongues and/or being slain in the spirit is a valid Biblical doctrine? What experiences or Bible verses do you base that from?
 
Bill I gotta say, this is a risky topic. I for one will stay out of it completely cause you don't even wanna get me started on this. If I do happen to post after this, someone delete it asap, seriously you won't like my response.
 
I have experienced several occasions where people have spoken in tounges and prophecied after being possesed by the Holy Spirit. When the holy spirit decended apon the apostles these gifts came as a natural cause by being in the presense of God. This is not to say that someone should strive to possess these gifts but rather is a natural byproduct of when God feels it is necessary to touch us on a more personal level.
 
This is great i just asked my mom about tounges and stuff like that, but what is being slain in the spirit?? never heard of that
 
Having been raised not believing in tongues, this subject was always questionable for me, So I studied and experienced and believe now it is Bible Doctrine...I am almost tempted to not reply. Please no one get offended.:)

Experiences: My own experience of speaking in tongues, I also witnessed my two daughters and oldest son (Gabe) recieve the baptism of the Holy Ghost at the exact same moment and started speaking in tongues. I have also known during the middle of a service that one person will start speaking in tongues and another interpret. And just the other night my 12 year old got filled, After church he said, "Mom, Dad, I was praying really loud then all of a sudden I started speaking and didn't know what I was saying."

on to Scripture...

Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentence: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily , verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; They shall speak with new tongues;

Acts 2:4
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 19:6
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

from the Holman Bible Dictionary...
Tongues, Gift of...Spiritual gift involving ability to speak in foreign language(s) not previously studied or to respond to experience of the Holy Spirit by uttering sounds which those without the gift of interpretation could not understand. At Pentecost the church received the gift to communicate the gospel in foreign languages (Acts 2; compare 10:44-46; 19:6). God gave His Spirit to all His people to witness and prophesy. In Corinth some members of the church uttered sounds the rest of the congregation did not understand (!Cor. 12-14). This led to controversy and division. Paul tried to unite the church, assuring the church that there are different gifts but only one Spirit (! Cor. 12:4-11).
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Again I just thought I would get into this discussion based on what I have experienced and studied. I absolutely do not want to offend anyone. I respect everyone's opinions, these are just mine and my family's opinions.
 
*takes a deep breath* okay, this is going to be kind of long...

I believe in speaking in tongues. I believe that it is a valid aspect and part of the gifts from God available to all believers. That said, I don't believe it is used properly. Corinthians detail that whenever someone speaks in tongues, then there HAS to be an interpreter, and that only one to three individuals speak in tongues at any given service, as the speaking in tongues is a benefit for individuals but not the group, and it leads to confusion within the service. and the Bible is quite clear that we should not have confusion within our services.


Now to 'Slain in the Spirit,' 'Being Drunk in the Spirit' and other forms of uncontrolled movements and actions. I was a part of the Pensacola Revival at Brownsville. I attended, I participated. I laughed. I fell down. Ultimatley, I read my Bible and realized that it is un-Biblical.

A prime concept that we believe in is that God is the same today, yesterday and tomorrow. He is the only non-changing entity in existence. Yet nowhere in the New Testament is there proof that being 'Slain in the Spirit' a valid movement, and in fact view it as a heresy.

Consider this, words are very important, as they detail what we're thinking. They explain the concepts which we're thinking of. First let's look at 'Slain in the Spirit' and break it down. The thought is that the Spirit is knocking you down and modifying your spirit and thoughts, is dealing with you in some way. But look at the word we're using to describe it "Slain." Which means to make dead. Now we serve a God of life. He, by his very nature, cannot do what we're attributing to Him here. He cannot slay his servants in ths way. So if we're not being 'slain' by the Holy Spirit which spirit are we being slain by?


Now the 'being drunk' as characterized by uncontrollable laughter. First and foremost, the Bible calls us to be SOBERMINDED in ALL THINGS. For the Holy Spirit to make us drunk in anything causes him to break his own commandments. Then there is the fact that uncontrollable laughter by its very nature is disruptive and caushes confusion.
 
I was just coming back on to clarify, I think That Kidan just did that. Thank you Brother.
I believe that many people "fake it".
But I also believe that when you are praying in the Spirit, that there is power. Corinth was abusing it, and there was much confusion.

We all have been given gifts of some sort. Paul spoke of at least 20 or so, including leadership, preaching, teaching, tongues, healing, knowledge, wisdom, etc. We need to learn to use these gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:7
But the manifestations of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
 
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Your MOM tries to avoid flame wars!

Speaking in toungs I consider to be very viable, but I am skepticle. I've seen and heard of too many people performing it at random, without having anyone present who can translate the message or receive it themselves. When out of scriptural context (i.e. not speaking in toungs but speaking in gibberish) it edifies us rather than God, and it serves no point than to distract from Christ. My wife was raised in a church that told her she wasn't saved because she wasn't given that gift. That environment caused her a great deal of hurt and she was an athiest for years. Thankfully, she later came around and has become one of the wisest and most faithful Christians I've ever met.

1Co 14:6 But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?
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Being slain in the spirit, holy laughter, and the like, aren't really mentioned anywhere in the bible. Being that as it is, considering the churchs I've seen that practice these acts usually make them such a big point of it, that it fully takes the point of the experience off of God and onto the dramatic actions of the congregation.

We must be careful with these topics. In our society us Christians are spoiled. We have the luxury of feeling persecuted when our boss asks us not to say "Marry Christmas" to the customers, so it is very easy to forget that there is a war going on for our souls. Every supernatural event, or seeming "divine intervention" shouldn't be written off as something to accept as God's work, because if we are so quick to do that we may not provide resistance when we need to.

On the other hand, we have to remember that our God is the God of Abraham who parted (and even created the Red Sea.) Miracles and supernatural things happen... every day. But when they do not align themselves with a biblical precedent we must be very careful about who's will we are following.

[toj.cc]WildBillKickoff said:
Yes, there is a religious discussion board, but this is something that has been brought up in our discussion here on the GW boards more than a few times-- speaking in tongues, being slain in the spirit, etc. Besides, most of you don't go there anyway.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this subject. Before we start, however, a few guidelines:
1. There is no wrong answer as long as your position is Biblically based.
2. There will be no, and I repeat, NO bashing of other's opinions. It's OK to disagree and ask clarification questions, but do so on the basis of interpretation of Scripture and your experiences, keeping in mind that other's experiences and interpretations might be, and probably are, different and no less valid than your own.
3. This is a test. If we can keep it civl, I don't lock the thread and we can do more like this when they come up.
4. Don't take things too seriously.

So, the question: Why do or why don't you believe that speaking in tongues and/or being slain in the spirit is a valid Biblical doctrine? What experiences or Bible verses do you base that from?
Click to expand...
 
be careful where you tread while furthuring this discussion, this is tricky ground and you should post if you feel convicted to do so. If you feel like posting in anger or haste, please reconsider, take awhile to pray, and spend some time in silence with God.
 
Firstly, I think it should be mentioned that I have never participated in speaking in tongues, and I didn't grow up around it. This is probably why it makes me uncomfortable, because everybody knows that the unfamiliar is at least a little threatening. I totally understand and respect that to some people speaking in tongues is an important part of their worship, and I don't think that's wrong.

That said, I'd like to requote Mark 16:17, and include the verse that follows it. It should also be noted that the earliest manuscripts don't include Mark 16:9-20 (you can Google that if you'd like to check) and most Bibles even include a note to that effect.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

I was at a picnic when I was about 7 years old when I was running along like any other 7 year old and I suddenly heard a rattle go off like crazy. Like any good Appalachian boy I froze and tried to identify where the sound had come from. Unfortunately, I immediately noticed the snake's rattle whipping against my leg. Fortunately, I didn't move a muscle. When I gathered up the bravery to open my eyes again I looked down and saw that my right foot was about half an inch behind the snake's head and it was pinned. By the time I'd decided that my fate was sealed one of the other children had brought back an adult, who took one look at the situation and began running straight at me. When he reached me the man stopped, lifted his booted foot, and stomped right on the snake's head.

This was a church-affiliated picnic, but I don't think anyone there doubted that man's faith.
 
Wow. What an issue to start with!

I was raised Southern Baptist, but didn't attend church between ages eleven and eighteen (except Christmas-Easter-Mother's Day-Father's Day and sporadically with friends).

When I began attending again, it was at a Full Gospel congregation. There I witnessed tongues and slaying in the Spirit. Nearly the entire congregation spoke in tongues during all the songs and prayers (but never, ever during the service), but NOT ONCE did anyone interpret the tongues. Ever. I was also told I was not baptized with the Holy Spirit if I didn't speak in tongues; I never did.

As for slaying in the Spirit, I've had bad experiences with it. With the same church, during a retreat, I went with a younger friend up front. Three men came down the row, person after person. One touched each person on the head, prayed, and then pushed them on the forehead. They fell backwards, and the other two men lowered them to the ground. My turn came. The first man prayed and then literally pushed me backwards, off balance. The other two pulled me down to the ground. It was the same with my friend next to me. I quit attending the church two weeks later.

Since then, I have studied the topic of tongues, and people I trust have had personal experiences with it. I believe the gift of tongues is valid and Biblical; I also believe the expression of it I experienced at that church was un-Biblical. I have never experienced it myself, but this does not cause me to doubt my salvation. God never promised the gift of tongues to everyone; if He does not believe I need it, I trust His judgement.
 
I believe that God works more often through less conspicous ways. A person may need healing, and can be healed without going to a special service. It very well may be that people are healed in that way, but only if they have faith will God provision for them.

God provides for our needs, we dont have to do this for God to give us that. Many people loose faith because they dont like what God gives for a answere, you may request something you really feel you need in prayer, but unless you are ready for it, and the timing is to God's purposes he wont deliver, yet.

To consider speaking in tounges, etc, to be considered a normal act by Christians is not true. Many people will have a spiritual gift in areas that make it easier for them to come closer to God to the point where that is possible, but seeking God just to have that gift is what frustrates many people.
 
If i die without speaking in tounges, or see an angle, or see any miraculas miricles (which i have), i wont be dissapointed, as long as i go to heaven and get to worship God 24/7, thats all i care about, thats what i live for.
 
(this is quite possibly off-topic, but I've been awake for about 24 hours)
Stc95- That's a very faithful way to live. Personally, if I die and then nothing else (as in, I was wrong about my entire life view) I think my life still couldn't possibly have been better. I think Christians spend too much time thinking about how great the afterlife will be and don't realize that being a believer is the best possible way to live.
 
I grew up in a pretty tame church- very calm and no "weird" (no offense meant) things. I went to another church that was pretty hoppin' but still no tounges. I was just wondering if tounges seems to appear in one denomination more than others? I don't know where I really stand on it- other than "if that's your gift, great, use it"- but I have also never sceen it.
I don't know what to think about slain in the spirit, I was talking to a pastor that I look up to very much and he said he went to one of those services with his friend. He is about 6 foot and 200 some odd pounds- so he doesnt move unless he wants too, just keep that in mind. He went with his friend to a certain service and they asked the clergy to come down first. He went down, was pushed on the forehead and didn't move. Next thing he knows, someone is kicking his knees out and catching him as he falls. I don't doubt it is real sometimes but I think when it is televised and other times people just do it to look cool. Like I said, I don't doubt it can be real, it is just often misused.
 
thinkerseven said:
I don't doubt it is real sometimes but I think when it is televised and other times people just do it to look cool. Like I said, I don't doubt it can be real, it is just often misused.
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I have no doubt that it is real. None whatsoever.

My doubts are if it is from God or not.


And even more disturbing is when I brought these issues up with one of the pastors he tell me in no uncertain terms that I was not to question him or the Spirit. Which also flies in the face of Biblical concepts.
 
I have no explaination for the following story:

I was attending a church, lots of tongue talking, Dancing in the aisles, & supposed "slaying of the Spirit". I say supposed because I got called out of my seat by a minister. I didn't feel the power in him like I have others but so many people in this church loved this man and believed I didn't want to disgrace him in front of them so I went out. He laid his hand on me and started praying. I felt nothing, then I felt him push and 2 others pull me, I resisted being knocked down, he backed up then wham...I was literally knocked to the floor by some unseen force. It freaked me out to say the least. I don't know what happened, and to this day I don't. I felt the power of God as I fell. I didn't pass out, twitch, laugh, giggle,and the power did not come out of the man. I just got knocked to my butt. I got back to my seat and my wife said those men were trying to push you down, why did you let them. I told her what happened. She said this church has alot of good people, there are some powerful people, maybe God knocked you down so that they wouldn't lose their faith. I lived in a small town where everyone knew everyone. Many people came to my wife and I as if we were pastors to ask us questions. So maybe, just maybe, God is working on this little church of strong believers and used me to not stir their faith too much...I do not know. I just know what I felt.
 
Since I got 4 hours of sleep last night, I'll post what I think on the subject but I don't have the verses yet. I'll look them up later if people want them.

I believe that there is such a thing as speaking in tongues. I believe that it can only be spoken unless there is an interpreter there, otherwise, it is a sin. I believe that it can only be given directly from the Holy Spirit and not by the laying on of the hands by elders in a church.

My denomination, the Nazarenes, believe that there is no such thing as speaking in tongues. They cite the verse that says "And you shall not babble like the heathens in open places" (I know I misquoted that, but you get the gist) as the one that says that speaking in tongues is a sin. I agree with about 90% of the Nazarene doctrine. Speaking in tongues, eternal security, and infant baptism are the 3 main doctrines that I don't have a stand on or disagree with the Nazarene church on.

Once I get more caffeine flowing through me, I will post a more elaborate and legible post.
 
MaidMirawyn said:
I was also told I was not baptized with the Holy Spirit if I didn't speak in tongues; I never did.
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Ive actually known a church where, before entering the church you had to stick your hand into a pot with a snake inside and if the snake bit you, you had a demon inside you, but if it didt then your ok to enter the church.

for myself, i grew up in a pentacostal church but they never did toungues or anything while i remember being there. the youthgroup, when i was old enough to attend, was neat but they only focused on camps and always ALWAYS just getting the "spiritual high" and it bugged me alot. the amazing part is, they never spoke in toungues at the camp. now i go to a little baptist church thats neo-conservative (meaning if your a lady u must wear a dress 24/7, any music but hymns and classical music is pure evil, and people who talk in toungues are thrown out), i dont go to the place by choice but the pastors trying to change things and i help him out with sound n stuff on occassion now. and in eastern washington i go to another pentacostal church where, speaking in toungues, word of knowledge, and with special guests will "slay" people.

Toungues: i believe are misused, i here and see people do it, without clear purpose and no interpreter. and its something that gets hyped up way more than anything. a good example is a friend ive cut myself off from (for other reasons than this mind you) who was a "leader" in the youthgroup, was told he was made for great things, thinks he can speak in tongues, and beleives hes going to japan to be a youth leader. as for leader, he didt do much and actually misguided some of the kids with his attitidude and demeanor, he'll ramble off some hebrew words he heard on messiaonic praise music, doesnt have a GED or diploma or any high school credits (was home schooled), no money, missed the boat for japan, and no other plans... im not saying God cant use him sitll for missions n stuff, im saying that its a place where spiritual highs and speaking in tongues were misused. again not following the biblical examples

Slay: Ive seen it happen, ive never seen people try and struggle with it before, someone tried praying over me an i just kinda stood there......... lol. ive yet to see biblical evidence even pertaining to this so it makes me weary too....

Word of knowledge still bugs me at time becuase its generally very.... well general. they'll say something like, " I see someone with a pain in their neck and shoulders thats just peircing".... to me thats about all the old people in that church lol. The way ive always seen it done has always been biblical for this.

All in all, no church is always right or perfect, you just have to read the bible and have your own convictions and your own walk with God.
 
Awesome responses so far

Guys, thank you for keeping this on topic and civil so far. I like the fact that everyone so far has agreed on several points:

1. Not everyone who acts like they have been slain/are speaking in tongues is being honest with themselves.
2. Too often we get caught up in the feeling of "worship", no matter what your practice or denomination, and it becomes about us and not about God.
3. That no action is necessary to salvation other than accepting Jesus' sacrifice.

My view on the topic:

I can't give the exact location, but Paul does mention a couple of verses about speaking in tongues. First, and I think this is 1 Cor 13, that prophesying (Sp?) and speaking in tongues are great, but useless without love. Second, I know it is mentioned that "these gifts" (meaning certain spiritual gifts) will fade away until the last days.

I believe that we are very close to the last days. I can't prove that, but based on my interpretation of the signs, the groundwork being laid for a one-world government with the EU and the SPP (which takes effect in 2010 and effectively unites all of North America into an EU-like group), and for a one-world currency with the Euro and probably the dollar for the SPP making up 80% of the world's wealth. Also, do a search on the number of major, worldwide treaties that will take effect in or before 2010, it is staggering.

Anyway, being that I think we are close to the last days, I believe that the gifts will return very shortly or have already returned. I know that I have never spoken in tongues or been slain in the spirit. However, I have entered into prayer language in private. (Prayer language is what most people call speaking in tongues. Speaking in tongues requires an interpreter, prayer language is the Spirit speaking for you in words neither you nor anyone else understands.)

I think that any way you look at, however, this is an issue that is between you and God, because I'm certainly not going to question what God has to say to you. That's your job. What each of us do have to do is to work it out for ourselves. As Paul said, "Test everything, hold fast to what is true."
 
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