Scientology

[Mr.Bill]

Why is your religious text superior or more true than all others? Please be specific.

 

[PapaToad]

Words can be played with such is mans ability to manipulate the words. Cult an rotten word most fundamentalist use to refer to any one out side the Christian Faith. I find it degrading, if I was a Buddhist I would want to be called such. The term cult is to dehumanize those who practice what ever religion. When I become a preacher if I use the term cult someone slap me silly!!!

PROOF of GOD, I have none , No one can prove a God to you. Only God

Also, Why am I right and everyone else is wrong? I do not know and I do not have a good answer for you. I personally think all the other religions are cast off of the one true GOD. I have studied many, and I stand on Christ. I have written many times why for me this was my “logical” conclusion. And before you dissect that statement. I can make decision logical for me. I never live in world subjected by the laws of science, I grew up with witches and casters and Jesus freaks. I understood spiritual realties before I understood law of nature.

As a Christian; I do not care if you feel my way is the right way. Simple believe what you want. It is right for me. But I do ask do not stand on the fence: pick a team. I have in all my travels and adventures, been Close to God. Even when I was wicked. I see him in everything and every where. When I am beset by trails and challenges, it is my Faith and my relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ that bring me through.

I do not know why God made the rules he did, I do not agree with all of them, and I do my best to be as obedient as I can. But again, I am not called to make you believe, or prove that he exists. I am only to preach the Gospel where I go, and to those who will listen. If you do not wish to hear what I say, Fine we can agree to disagree.

I love the saying by St Augustine:: Preach the Gospel often, and when necessary use words.

If you know me personally, you will see and be aware of the things that God has done in my life. I was the bad man on so many levels. But the Lord Changed me. He will change you too; if you let him. If that’s not your cup of tea, theres coffee milk, and soda available.

if you are a Taoist and secure in your beliefs, then we are two pilgrims on a journey and I can only Pray to my God, The LORD JESUS CHRIST that you reach your final destination. ( I will pray you will come know the Lord) And If the Lord judges you by what you know and what you knew in your heart; That is between you and God, and not for me to finger point and scare you with visions of HELL! ( HOW I HATE THAT TACTIC)

HELL never scared me; I did not become a Christian out of fear of eternity in Hell. I would have laughed in the Face of Hell or my choices back then. I thought like a lot of you did, I figured if God was the cruel tyrant that could not hand write me a hand written note of the truth, then Hell was fine with me, because well, I was here and avaible, he dropped the ball. I made the best choice I could.

But Alas that was not true, He set me on a Journey that covered this nation and I found myself in a Bible collage and hearing a message that spoke to my heart more than any sergeant ever screamed in my ear.

So as my rant closes, not all Christians think you non believers are going to hell; there’s accountability to consider, and for some; you will come to the Lord before you die. Some of you have anger toward, God and the World, and hopefully you get beyond that, some of you are pilgrims as well.

I have friends who are witches, Zen philosophers, Buddhist, I can talk with them and find common truths in our views. I pray each one of the gets saved, but that is between them on God. I speak the truth as has been shown in my heart. And I do believe it so much vehemently. Because I have my proof, but I have always believed in a spiritual realm. And science changes its mind. Doctrines change, words change, and we do our best to understand. That all any of us can do, That and pray. But If you do not have God, then You do the best you can.

But the greatest commandment and great commission have been there since The Lord Jesus Christ spoke them. Those haven’t changed. You do not have to believe, but I do

 

[Mr.Bill]

the bible says so. The bible says this is the truth and all others are not. The Bible is where my Lord talks to us. If others wish to follow another false god..or no god at all..i simply pray for them and hope they accpet Jesus as Savior before the end of time. At that time(read revelations) all non-belevers are heading to Hell. I would really love to see that not happen..but God is King of all.

So the reason the Bible is superior to all other religious texts is because the Bible says that it is. That is a fallacy, sir. You cannot justify the Bible with the Bible.

All religious texts have proclaimed that same thing: That they are the sole owner of truth in the world. Their Gods talk to them as well. They feel that it is you who is not saved, you who should be pitied. How is it that "they" are so different than you? Why are they wrong, and you right? Please, be specific.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Well here's the thing, hescommin. It seems to me your placement of faith is entirely arbitrary. You base your faith completely on the Bible, but give no reason for that faith other than the Bible itself. To me, that essentially means that you decided to put your faith in Christianity for little reason other than for the sake of putting faith in something. Riddle me this: What if you had been born in China? Pakistan? India? If you have no reason for your belief in Christianity, than there's no reason why you shouldn't believe in Buddhism, Hinduism, Islam, or any other religion. You keep repeating that you have made a choice, but what I am trying to get at is the "why" behind that choice. You have given me absolutely nothing in that regard.

 

[Eon]

And I have made mine. I will stand with my kin on the last day and we will see the coming storm. And if I have chosen wrongly then I will shrug and spit, square my shoulders with my sword unsheathed. And I will smile - because I will be amongst the finest company on that day, and the fight will have been of my choosing. It will have been about how I chose to live my life and how I choose to end it.

And when the end comes I will try to block it and try to strike it. And if my blade breaks - so be it, so shall I.

 

[Eon]

Neither the fire in my eyes, my heart or my hands is welcome in heaven. And I wouldn't be me without it.

If you're wrong, I'll be around forever - endlessly perfecting and improving and training. That's not sad - I'll have my kin with me, and I'll be among a lot of people on this world from time to time. And I'll be learning.

If you're right then I wouldn't want to survive one instant past judgement. And I'd rather suffer eternally on my own terms than live one instant in Gods grace. I'm sorry if you think that's negative - but what's the point of this stupid game we play if the score isn't important?

 

[PapaToad]

Neither the fire in my eyes, my heart or my hands is welcome in heaven. And I wouldn't be me without it.

If you're wrong, I'll be around forever - endlessly perfecting and improving and training. That's not sad - I'll have my kin with me, and I'll be among a lot of people on this world from time to time. And I'll be learning.

If you're right then I wouldn't want to survive one instant past judgement. And I'd rather suffer eternally on my own terms than live one instant in Gods grace. I'm sorry if you think that's negative - but what's the point of this stupid game we play if the score isn't important?

You are welcomed in heaven you have done nothing to exclude you form heaven. make your choices as you see fit. But Heaven is open for those who wish it. God bekons you and Your choice is noted. I do not think God cares about the score so much as how you played the game!

 

[Gandhi]

I have every reason. My experience with God has been personal and will continue to be. God will not force his way in. I invited jesus in. If you see it as arbitrary so be it..yet another label i wear in proud service of Jesus Christ..

I think what Mr. Bill is trying to say is there is some guy in pakistan saying his experience with Allah is personal and continues to be. He talks to him everyday, and he knows he is listening.
How do u know u're right, and he's wrong. Because he thinks thinks u're wrong and he's right.

 

[PapaToad]

Ultimately someone is going to be wrong. If your Lucky, it will be all of us, if not, well I am not worried one way or another.

 

[Genesis1315]

One thing on the Bible. While it is a book, it technically is a collection of smaller books. And given the various authors over the time period that it was written and the common theme that encompasses all of the books, The fact that it claims to be the truth would hold validity, again, as it was written by many authors.

 

[Dark Virtue]

But don't you see? The Bible claims that it is the word of the one true god, but how many other religious texts make the same claim?

My question was, what makes YOUR religion different? You're viewing things subjectively, while I am viewing them objectively, without a religious bias. To me, your religion looks like all the rest, you believe you're right whilst condemning everyone else, while the other religions are doing the very same thing.

 

[Dark Virtue]

One thing on the Bible. While it is a book, it technically is a collection of smaller books. And given the various authors over the time period that it was written and the common theme that encompasses all of the books, The fact that it claims to be the truth would hold validity, again, as it was written by many authors.

The claim that it is a work of divine truth while being written by many authors does NOT, logically, give it any validity whatsoever. Why do you believe that it does?

Those authors are unknown and the works that have been included into the bible are questionable at best.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Ultimately someone is going to be wrong. If your Lucky, it will be all of us, if not, well I am not worried one way or another.

And my point, again, is what is it that makes you believe that you are right?

You have a book that claims to be right, but so do many other religions.

 

[SLNT_FIR]

In my opinion science will prove the bible right if given enough time, however, I will bet my life that we will not get that far. There will be too many blanks to fill in in order to be able to ratioanlize and accept christianity through scientific proofs like this: science prooves ____, therefore ______. Therefore a god is real, blahblahblah. THerefore, accroding to _____, ______ is better choice than others and i will choose ____. I won't happen.

You have a book that claims to be right, but so do many other religions.

Well, many of these points have been made already, again.

#1. Personal conviction / feeling.
#1 Counter-Point: Yes I know that other people that are Muslim, Buddhist, etc, have also claimed to have personal deep feelings in contact of a spirit thing etc.
#2. Scientific Proof: Some science has, so far, prooved that an existence of a God is more rational believe than NONE whatsoever.
#2 Counter-Point: Yes, I know that other areas too point in the exact opposite direction and sure, there may be more arrows pointing that direction.

If someone could continue my list in a likewise fashion that would help. I'm too bummed out to think about more. -.-

Anyway, enuff typing in this topic for now.

 

[PapaToad]

And my point, again, is what is it that makes you believe that you are right?

You have a book that claims to be right, but so do many other religions.

Dv this circle is silly, in both our view. Not everyone can be right. Only one is right. What makes me believe I am Right. Simply the fact that I believe; If I met a Zen master and we shared view points. I would still believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. As would the Zen Master hold his beliefs.

What makes me believe is the fact that I have no cravings for Cigarettes; after I God showed me I wouldn’t. This after 18 years of smoking.

The fact that I have had serve Pain prayed away in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ; on 3 separate occasions

I have sickness cast out of me in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ

I have witnessed the Power and glory of Prayer in the Lords name.

As someone said the proof is in the pudding. Do I think I know it all; no that would be silly, but I know enough to understand my plan and purpose in this life; this was not a quest for heaven for me, as I said before; Hell was not my motivation.

I understand God’s plan and purpose for my life, and I want a wild journey And The Lord’s providing it; the destination is secondary for me.

I am not biasing my belief of any LOGICAL deduction in the physical realm. I have explain time and time again I strive to pierce the spiritual realms. You can accept it or not. I will never give you an answer you are seeking.

I don’t really care what science has to say about, Science didn’t cure my craving for cigarettes. Science did not permanently cure my pain, science and logical did not heal my sickness instantly.

Prayer did; Specifically Prayer to the Lord Jesus Christ.

So whether you believe me or not; bothers me not a bit; whether you believe or not impresses me not in the least.

But every morning I wake up pain free, it is another reminder of the Lord Jesus Christ in my life. I can only Pray He manifests to you in a way you can accept.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Dv this circle is silly, in both our view. Not everyone can be right. Only one is right. What makes me believe I am Right. Simply the fact that I believe; If I met a Zen master and we shared view points. I would still believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. As would the Zen Master hold his beliefs.

If one person believes 1+1=2 and another person believes 1+1=3, does that make them both right?

If one person believes the moon is made up of cheese and another believes it is made of rock, does that make them both right? What if the person who believed the moon was made of cheese believed so with his whole heart? Does the strength of his belief make it right?

You say that you believe you are right simply because your brain has the cognitive capacity to ponder the question. Do you see what you are saying? Do you see the problem with that?

I am not biasing my belief of any LOGICAL deduction in the physical realm. I have explain time and time again I strive to pierce the spiritual realms. You can accept it or not. I will never give you an answer you are seeking.

And my question to you is how can you understand the supernatural when it is not bound by any physical rules? How can a PHYSICAL brain ever hope to TRULY understand the SUPERNATURAL?

I don’t really care what science has to say about, Science didn’t cure my craving for cigarettes. Science did not permanently cure my pain, science and logical did not heal my sickness instantly.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous to science. If you were in a car accident and needed medical attention, would you ask to be taken to the hospital where science can be administered to you or would you instead ask to be taken to church where you could pray and be prayed for? Someone once said, sure you believe in God, but you look both ways before crossing the street, don't you?

 

[PapaToad]

If one person believes 1+1=2 and another person believes 1+1=3, does that make them both right?

If one person believes the moon is made up of cheese and another believes it is made of rock, does that make them both right? What if the person who believed the moon was made of cheese believed so with his whole heart? Does the strength of his belief make it right?

You say that you believe you are right simply because your brain has the cognitive capacity to ponder the question. Do you see what you are saying? Do you see the problem with that?

1+1 +2 or 1+1=? Are we talking binary cause I am sure three could be right.

No , I play, Am I right I believe very much I am on the right Track. Do I feel Zen is right, Buddhism, Taoist, NO. As I said only one is right. I believe I am right because of what I have experienced. Do I have all the answers, no. But I’ll not go thru life scared to commit because my Limited thinking can not grasp every concept or notion.

DV, What am I saying, you seem to know? What is your problem with what I am saying?

You confused what I wrote, I could care less if zen master B did not believe in God, I did not say he was right!

And my question to you is how can you understand the supernatural when it is not bound by any physical rules? How can a PHYSICAL brain ever hope to TRULY understand the SUPERNATURAL?

Because we have three parts DV, a Spirit, a soul, and Flesh, we should be able to perceive on all those levels.

I think you're being a bit disingenuous to science. If you were in a car accident and needed medical attention, would you ask to be taken to the hospital where science can be administered to you or would you instead ask to be taken to church where you could pray and be prayed for? Someone once said, sure you believe in God, but you look both ways before crossing the street, don't you?

Once again you try and put me in a box of your making DV, I am not making a untrue statement about science; we have proven what positive mental attitude can speed healing, how proper thinking can displace pain. I never said I had not use of science. Being a Triage Sergeant in the Army I saw many a wonderful science invention save lives, I have also seen supernatural feats of will and spirit that defied doctors and experts. So what I was saying, Science had a picture but there’s more to it. Doctors are necessary, even Luke was a doctor. I would never not seek medical attention in a emergency. But I would have to be bleeding out both my eyes.

Side Note: Funny how folks like you and Eon, make statements about how we as Christian prosecute you as free thinkers or whatever you claim to call yourself. But when we as Christian do not submit to your thoughts and views you do your very best to blast us and try and trip us up in words.

As I said and will say again, I did not come here to debate the validity of my beliefs so much as to share them. I was never insincere or lying to science. I was making clear science doe not have all the answers.

The Basic truth to life is sometimes, you go with what doesn't make sense. I made a choice and stuck to it, that choice has never failed me. That to me is my Proof. You can believe what ever you what , but do not blast me for not conforming to your beliefs.

I have seen to much and experinced alot to think that science can put it all in a box. Do I think we know it all as bible believeing Christians. NO. But I do believe God gave us his word. And I do believe God is infallable. So Those are the guidlines I am working with.

Wow this has really moved from a sciencetology discussion hasn't it

 

[Gandhi]

As I said only one is right. I believe I am right because of what I have experienced.

I don't think DV is putting u down because u have different beliefs than him. He's just trying to understand y u think your right compared to other religions. Because the other guy thinks he's right because of your experience.
You think that the good things that have happened in your life are because of the christian god, but the muslum guy believes all his good forune is because off Allah. I think all the good things that happened in my life were either luck or I had to work hard for them which one is right.
Because of my lack of belief in a god I ofcource see it as luck because it is the most reasonable answer to me. U because of your christian beliefs believe your good fortune is because of your christian beliefs, and so on with the guy that believes in islam. Now one of us could be right and the rest are just trying to justify our own beliefs, or all of us could be wrong.
The human brain is a interesting thing, I can give a 10 year old grape juice and tell them its wine, and 10-20% of the time they will automaticly start acting intoxicated. They don't know their doing it, but their brain tells them this is what happens when u've seen people drink, so thins is how u should be since u are drinking.

 

[Eon]

Actually, despite your impugning my good name, I'm the last to tell someone they're flat wrong on a matter of faith. You must be confusing me with someone else.

I'll argue the toss over Science - but the minute you say "God did that through a miracle" I have to shrug and ask how we're supposed to have a sensible discussion regarding miracles that clean up evidence.

But I won't tell you that you're flat wrong and it never happened - because there's no way to disprove it.

 

[Mr.Bill]

On the topic of Scientology, is anyone here especially familiar with what scientologists believe? I have been doing some research on it, and everything I find is extremely vague. I'm thinking about going to my local dianetics center and stirring things up. : )