Gosh, legitnoob, I'm not even sure what to say. There are so many issues in your last post. I'll just respond piece by piece.
Well I didn't say that I didn't love the church! Isn't correcting people a labor of love? Isn't that showing love?
In most cases correcting people is not a labor of love. Most of the time I see that happening in the church it is judgment or arrogance.
My love of the church pushes me to want to see it work effectively and that of the early church working with the gifts of the spirit! I want to see the sick healed by the shadow of believers through the Holy Spirit.
I hope you don't have to see "the sick healed by the shadow of believers" in order for a church to be healthy. We are a Baptist church and we help people discover and utilize their spiritual gifts. We are not that unusual, just not charismatic.
The diffrence between the church of acts and the church now is lack of vision in the church. The church as a whole has lost understanding of our mission or they have just become calast to it.
As I said earlier - the early church had as many problems as today's church, including people who went along for the ride without really being full blown followers of Christ. Churches in the first century lost their vision, and churches today have a clear sense of vision. The mission has always been the same - go, make disciples, baptize, teach. Jesus was pretty lear what our mission is.
If you have a church filled with people who believe in God but don't know God then there is something wrong!
Absolutely - we agree on that...BUT...that has always been the problem in church life. People are in the process of getting to know God and people are in different stages of that journey. It was true when Jesus was with his disciples. It was true in the churches Paul planted. It is true today.
If I may asked are you not concerned for these people who believe they are going to heaven but doesn't have a relationship with God!
Funny you should ask - and, yes, you may ask - I've given my life to winning the lost and making disciples because of my concern for those people...especially those who have no relationship with God.
Do I have to quote versus or can u see where I'm going?
No, you don't have to quote verses. I just don't see where you are going with the generalizations about the church. If not all churches are doing what you claim, then why lump them all together? Or, why even say, "most"? What would be helpful is to tell us what YOU are doing in YOUR church to win the lost and help them be more faithful followers of Jesus. What are YOU doing to bring about reformation in YOUR church?
And if this is the spotless bride in which Christ speakers of then y did He come and die
If?...
IF?...the church
IS.
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. Ephesians 5:25-27 (NIV)
This very church you are speaking ill of
IS the bride of Christ. He is doing everything to prepare her for that day when she will be presented radiant and pure, without blemish, to Himself. The church, in the here and now, will never be perfect. It is a bunch of people. It is not an organization, a religion, a building, a statement of faith, or any technology. The church is people in relationship with Christ. Dirty, sinful, petty, human, hurtful, prideful people. Go figure...it seems like Jesus could have picked better people than prostitutes and tax collectors and fishermen. But he didn't choose the religious and pious. He chose people like us, with all our blemishes to make radiant and pure. And that day will come...when He comes...and not before. That is why he came and died.
bc in alot I see no change between them before and after
Probably true, but not our place to judge. Jesus warns us not to be judging another's relationship with the Lord, but to look to our own issues rather than their issues.
"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5 (NIV)
Can you imagine if Jesus said, "Whoa, whoa, whoa! Don't talk to me about that fellow's walk with me until you sort out this little area of your life, (you pick the area)." He says that it is hypocritical of us. I do not want to be on the receiving end of that conversation.
and that's the church's fault bc lack of decipleship like Kahiel and I mentioned!
And here I definitely disagree with you. It is not the church's fault. Three reasons:
First from experiencing godly disciples of Christ, people really following Jesus closely, who came from communist countries where there were no churches (at least not legally). They had a Bible and a heart for God, that's it. No discipleship program. No church teaching and encouragement. They loved God and loved others. No church to be at fault or not be at fault. If people do not change it is not the church's fault, but their own.
Second, experiencing people in my own church where people are growing in the Lord because we do emphasize the need to grow, and sitting right next to them is someone who has not grown a bit after years of sitting in that same spot, next to that same person, under the same teaching, in the same church. Not the church's fault, but a decision they made to stay right where they were.
Third, God is not going to hold various organizations accountable, He is going to hold people accountable. He won't tell a church, "Get away from me, I never knew you." He will tell people that. He will fault teachers and people with itching ears, but the church will not be held at fault...the church won't even be when it comes to standing before God.
But it is Saturday afternoon and you have caught me in (or propelled me into) preaching mode. Sorry about that.