raid specs that offer a chance to be 2 things

/bow Miri and China. I admit I was thinking more in terms of tank vs healer vs range dps vs melee dps rather than the pve vs pvp distinction.

I think we have a number of guildies who have proven that they can efficiently dispatch raid duties with a spec that also makes them pvp viable. It is not a general rule ... it takes an exceptional player.

Every tree definitely has some noncritical or debatanle utility talents. Miri, I would argue that your spec makes you a "survivable" healer rather than a "maximum potency" healer ... but you are still unquestionably a healer. I think you would have trouble being a Kara capable tank and healer with a split spec. there are even exceptions to theme ... a feral druid can tank or dps. A boomkin like Wall could definitely heal (druid have the whole dreamstate build option out there which is said to be highly effective to a certain point. but those are really exceptions.

My main point is really just around getting on raid teams, and to dispell a notion that one betters his or her chances of getting a raid slot by taking a jack of multiple trades and master of none approach.
 
One of the biggest things to overcome with multipurpose specs is the sheer volume of gear one requires: I have 3 fully distinct gear sets:

1. Raiding (which I last logged out in) that gives me over 1600 healing and over 130 mana per 5 while in combat.
2. DPS (which I never log out in) that gives me +584 damage untricketted
3. PvP (which I is my favorite set) that gives me 300 resilience rating and 10,400 unbuffed health.

Only two pieces are shared between my DPS and my PVP set. Every other piece, down to the rings and trinkets and necklace are unique to each set. The time commitment to collect this vast array of gear is insanely high. And to keep them loaded up with the best gems and best enchants is insanely costly. And because what I choose to do, I attempt to be the best I can be, I load up heavily on buffs. For example, going to a 25 man raid will entail me fishing for Golden darters (for Golden fish sticks), purchasing stacks of Elixer of healing power, Mageblood elixers and getting a stack of superior mana oil.

And despite all this, I know I can be better. btw, I am one of those with a dual purpose (that is pve and pvp healing) spec. And there is nothing easy about making a dual purpose spec work. Its cost me some PvE utility and PvP survivability and alot of money in respecs. I've probably respecced enough to have actually purchased my epic flying mount at least once. And for VR tonight, I will most likely respec again, 41 into holy, because I saw some opportunities for this spec last time we were in The Eye and I want to see how it will work.
 
Re: Gilga - absolutely I would not be able to tank in kara at the moment, but that is more a function of my gear than spec choice. prior to respeccing to a pvp healing spec (8/11/42), I was a hybrid resto/feral spec (0/20/41). With appropriate gear I don't doubt that I could have tanked various portions of Kara. And with regards to "survivable" vs "maximum" for healing, I think those terms imply a large difference in abilities where I think the difference between abilities in a raid setting is less than 10%. An effect of diminishing returns. Again, for tree druids, the lack of use for healing touch alone frees up 13 talent pts from a "maximum" build. Those 13 talents pts effect less than 1-2% of my total spells cast. I would argue that that being the case, "survivable" is a mere few percentage pts worse than "maximum". I wouldn't call that just "surivivable". Just mincing semantics, but then... I like doing that ;-)


Oh oh, and Aves is playing the gear card, I wanna play too!

Miri has 4 totally distinct sets of gear, in addition, she has 2 other variations, one of which is slowly becoming an entire distinct set

Raid Healing (maximum healing effectiveness (combination of +healing, mp/5, int, and spirit)_
Stam Healing (increased stamina with slightly less healing, mp/5 for fights like gruul where getting one or two shot is a possibility)
PvP Healing (increased stamina, intellect, armor, resilience, sacrificing fairly significant amounts of healing and mp/5)
Cat DPS
Bear Tanking
Caster DPS



I totally agree with Aves regarding gear though. It's obviously much more difficult putting together that many different sets, but on the other hand i find it disheartening to see ret pallies or enhance shammies that can't heal a drop cause they've never bother fleshing out their off spec gear sets. IMHO, every class should at least have a stam version for their primary role for fights that have aoe that hits everyone or random targetted damage and for pvp. And for hybrids - maintaining off-spec gear sets allows flexibility and, should the time arise, respeccing.
 
Another wall of text follows:

Brug, I don't want to discourage you wanting to be involved but I want to make sure you know the cold hard facts about paladin tanking before going down that route. There are several reasons why tanking specs make up less percent then retribution specs. I will try to cover these as best I can.

Stigma. "l2heal and stand in the back like you are supposed to". Pre TBC in raids paladins healed. You might have the occasional ret spec'd pally doing DPS but you would have been laughed at had you tried to be a tank. Although TBC has changed the paladin dynamic quite a bit, that stigma had two years to grow before TBC came out. Having immediately respecced protection between the release of the 2.0 patch and TBC it is a stigma I have had direct experience with for the last year. If you want to tank as a pally you can't just be a mediocre tank, you have to be exceptional. Otherwise you just confirm the doubts other players have in pallies doing something other than healing.

Paladins are gear and spec dependent hybrids. Just look at the difference in gear between the specs. Holy: +heal, mp5, spell crit. Prot: stamina, defense, spell damage. Ret: strength, attack power. To be the best at a specific role, pallies have to focus both talents and gear. When I mean best I mean on par with classes that typically fill a specific raid roll. Sure a prot/ret pally can toss up a heal but I know after 4 HoLs I am done, oom. Those 4 HoLs are not going to be as effective as my Holy counterparts because I have no +heal while tanking. I have healed with my Kara gear as holy and as protection and the difference is night and day in terms of mana efficiency and tools available.

Tanking gear. Itemization for pally tanks is still a very real issue. Pally tanks give up two gear slots for mitigation compared to a warrior tank (main hand and ranged weapon). Pallies require a lot of Defense and mitigation stats to become uncrushable. To become uncrushable without Holy Shield you will have to find the gear to give you 102.4 combined mitigation. At 530 defense with mainly kara gear and various block/dodge/parry enhancements plus fully in protection I am at 73.5 combined mitigation. Holy shield tips me into uncrushable. You can with gear get uncrittable but without specing fully into protection you will be crushable and that is liability as a tank. Damage doesn't kill a tank, spikes in damage do, and that is why this is an important part of tanking.
 
1 final change

because of a certain person getting on my back about my spec ingame (champ), i will do 1 final respec but that is all. if my spec is the major issue of not getting into raids then im willing to fix it. there is just teh feeling that i cant do as i wish , that i have to set myself down one solid path because of what other people think (champ). im a failure as a healer to all right now and so , i feel taht i should drop healing all together and just respec to something else that can be used. i know someone has a objection out there and im waiting for it.
 
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