Most of what I've seen (which is limited to shows like COPS and a single ride-along) involves a routine stop and then discovering pot. That means they aren't taking as much time from stopping other criminals in order to bust pot smokers as you would like us to believe.
I said:
To be fair, there isn't usually a lot of time spent doing detective work...but that makes things worse, as this happens disproportionately, because marijuana busts are very easy. Police "crack down" to keep the numbers up.
IE: I'm not pretending there is a ton of detective work, nor trying to get people to believe that. But don't pretend that just because a cop busts someone on a routine traffic stop that there are no resources involved. Paperwork costs money. Courts cost money. Jail costs money. Loss of productivity for GDP (because the person can't get a job now) costs money. It costs a LOT to fight the war on marijuana. Of course, this isn't reason enough to legalize it, just saying it is what it is.
If a thief has no other crimes does that make it okay to steal? This makes no sense.
It's not supposed to be. That would be the deterrent factor.
Again, the deterrent factor. You shouldn't get a free pass when you break the law. There are consequences that you need to deal with.
People here who support prohibition are saying it's bad to smoke pot, so we should prevent them from doing so to the best of our ability.
My point is - so we're "helping" them by sticking them in jail with the rest of the prison population? Taking their livelihood away? That's not very helpful. Deterring murders is one thing. They are hurting other people.
It's one thing to deter me from stealing your stuff - I'm hurting you. It's another thing to deter me from hurting myself...by hurting me more.
Could I get a source for that?
Do you know what prison is like? What kind of people you are being exposed to? Yes, this is generalizing and not all prisons are very hardcore, but hanging around with hardened criminals is training to be a harder criminal.
I do not disagree that prison is also a
deterrent; I'm simply stating that it is great training ground for criminal activity. If you want more on this than just obvious common sense, I suppose I can look for some studies linking "white collar" crimes to harder ones.
Might want to look up the numbers on this. I know several states have laws in place prohibiting privatization of prisons. And I can almost guarantee you that the majority of prisons are not privately owned (the most recent data I could find was from 2000 and that amounted to a total of 153 facilities run privately in the entire US).
264 in the US. Or we should say,
72% more private prisons than we had in the 2000 number you quoted.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison#Private_prisons_in_the_United_States
Only 3 states (to my knowlege) have banned private prisons. The thing about private prisons was more of a side comment than directly addressing marijuana. I'll just say this - if you are ever incarcerated, do you want to go to a place that has a profit motive to A) ensure you don't get out as quickly or B) to prevent you from becoming a reformed citizen? Just some food for thought.
Seriously? This is a classic false dilemma. Guess what, I can support prohibition and still be against the cartels. . .
I'm not trying to act like you love cartels. The problem still exists, though. The FBI says that Mexico's drug lords are supported by our black market. Do you disagree? Do you disagree that black market exists because of prohibition?
I do not feel that pretending a problem doesn't exist is any way to excuse it. Again, I'm not saying you're some sick person who is glad of the violence in Mexico, but it's simply not valid to not factor this into a position.
I know it sounds sort of weird to say aloud, "I support marijuana prohibition, even though I know it directly leads to billions of dollars in drug cartel money, violence, and murder in Mexico", but that's reality we live in.
If somebody can show me why God commands that we have a
law prohibiting pot, I will of course reverse my position. In the meantime...while we're talking about pros and cons, let's not pretend the cons don't exist.
I'm really not trying to sound harsh, I'm simply asking that we all be honest.
Cartels are bad, yes. Cartels and their recruitment schemes will not go away if we legalize marijuana.
People are bad. Bad people do not miraculously become good when you legalize something. They will follow the money (harder drugs).
Yes, except there will be less money. Less money = less power. It's economics. Black markets are
always a factor of economy.
Are you insinuating that if we legalize pot, pot smokers will reject the ability to buy it in store, go to the dark alleys, and buy heroine instead? I don't think so.
Okay. . .if the drug dealer sells marijuana and cocaine then legalizing marijuana does not remove drug dealers. You just contradicted your previous arguments.
Less marijuana sales = less market and income for dealers. Less market and income means they either survive on less, or compete.
Here's a scenario: the American people wake up and decide to eat 70% less fast food. Can you honestly say that there would be just as many fast food restaurants?
As for "gateway" it's difficult to say. Common sense (if I have any) tells me that if I'm willing to try marijuana and I happen to like it, then I might be willing to try another drug to see if I like that as well.
Do such studies exist? I'm not real motivated to look. . .
Studies showing there is no causal link between marijuana and harder drugs are all around. There is not one single study (that I am aware of) showing any correlation at all whatsoever to contradict this. I should add that when I do research I'm not looking for studies reinforcing my belief; I look for everything.
You don't need to read a book; simply spend a few minutes and google "is marijuana a gateway drug".
I'm going to go out on a limb and say most kids who try a drug for the first time don't head to their local drug dealer. They most likely get it from a friend. Once hooked, then they need to head to the dealer. Would legalizing marijuana cut down on harder drug use? I think the difference would be negligible.
I'd be inclined to agree that there won't be much difference one way or the other on heroine use. Just remember, though, that drug deals often go bad and there is a lot of associated crime, shootings, etc.
I don't watch foxnews (I don't have cable). I don't think it is a kneejerk reaction. I don't support cartels (the people buying illegal drugs do).
The drugs are illegal because we say they are. The discussion is about whether or not they
should be illegal.
Also, like it or not, our black market
does feed the cartels. I don't think it is responsible for us as Christians to ignore that. We'll boycott BP gas because they spilled, or Amazon because they sold a pedo book for a few days, but somehow we are good at compartmentalizing the real everyday effects of some of our country's policies.
I know I am going against the grain here, and I hope I'm not coming off the wrong way, or that I don't respect where you guys are coming from.
I'll add again - smoking is bad, don't do it, even if it gets legalized.
Edit:
One last thing; same thing I asked Abba. Fornication, cheating on a spouse, homosexuality, and not tithing are all things God clearly says are against his law. Do you support laws creating felony offenses and jail time on each of these items? Why or why not? Lastly, how do you feel your position on marijuana is any different?