Preach Against WoW???

Makes some interesting points for sure. The main thing I see as a problem with WoW would be the addiction part. I've seen too many friends get sucked in over the years. It's at least something to take into consideration.
 
but all games are addictive or we true would not be playing thm more then once. As a Chrisitan it is simple to just play the game when know one kows u are one the challenge is letting people know and then letting them watch what u do and say. I know for people of the Forgiven we are very highly watched in the sga for how we act and react to comments made on run or in channel just talking.
If you going to preach do it dont be scaried but dont be hidding in a corner if u scared just trust God.
 
I actually did a small bible study about this type of topic for my warhammer guild. fact is, no matter what we do in life, men will always judge us and say "Christians shouldn't do XYZ."

The thing is that they don't know what we're called to do, how we proceed when we do things. Some people do play for entertainment only. Some of us are called to serve, even in the games. There is a ministry available in games and the internet.

But if we neglect it, those people that need to find Jesus may never hear what we have to offer. We have to find the dark spots and shine Jesus' light in that corner (Mt 28:19) We can't wait for people to drive by our church and hope they'll stop because we have a pretty building. We have to go out and bring the people to our church - whether it be pixels or brick.

But don't just fall into the trap of saying "well, Randy said I can play games 23 hours a day!" because that's not what I'm saying at all. But we are told that no matter what we do, to do it for the glory of God. (1 Cor 10:31) Don't fall into the trap of playing for self-gratification, self-exaltation. For no man can serve two masters (game & God). But that alone doesn't make gaming bad. How you game can make it bad.

Jesus drank wine.
Jesus spent time with prostitutes.
Jesus made disciples from sinners.
Jesus made disciples from those that killed Christians.

If Jesus were on the Earth today, I believe that He'd be on the internet, playing games too. Here's the thing - He Is Here. He left us the Spirit to guide us. The Spirit is with us every step of the way. It's our job to get out there and let the Spirit work (Mt 28:19 again)
 
(Source)

"For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."'" (Luke 7:33-34)

Jesus contrasted Himself with John the Baptist. Jesus said that John
did not eat bread nor drink wine, but Jesus did eat and drink. This
gives the impression that Jesus ate bread and drank wine. Furthermore,
because Jesus ate and drank, He was called a "glutton" and a
"drunkard." This implies that Jesus possibly drank wine (although I'm
sure He didn't get drunk!).

and Source 2
Then at the "Last Supper" Jesus passed around wine to His disciples. Since this was six to seven months after the grape harvest and since there was no way to preserve grape juice, this also had to be fermented wine. (The actual phrase is "fruit of the vine," but, as pointed out by The New Westminster Dictionary of the Bible, this expression was "employed by the Jews from time immemorial for the wine partaken of on sacred occasions, as at the Passover and on the evening of the Sabbath. The Greeks also used the term as a synonym of wine which was capable of intoxication.")

Source3

I could go on and find several other conferring references, but the point still stands with the first argument. Jesus contrasted himself to John the Baptist, clearly stating that John did not drink wine. Wine without the alcohol (created by fermentation) is just grape juice. There are Greek and Hebrew words for juice, but those words weren't used - the equivalent of "wine" was.
 
In addition, while I think it is fair to say that the wine back then may not have been as potent as the stuff we have today, it should also be pointed out that the water quality was so poor in the region and time of Jesus that not drinking wine was actually detrimental to ones health (hence Paul's comment to Timothy to take some wine for his stomach ache). Thus everyone drunk wine not only was it safe, it also represented an important means of killing off bacteria. Thus, even without direct reference (though Durruck has stated some) we would assume that Jesus did drink wine. Indeed, it is unsurprising that there is only a few references to Jesus drinking wine as there was no moral dilemma there (there was to getting drunk BTW). As a metaphor, you would not be surprised if a modern biography failed to mention that someone drank coffee.
 
Indeed, I'd have to side with Durruck on this one. In fact, when Jesus performed his first miracle, he turned water into wine at a party he was attending. While that does in no way mean that he "had to have" drank the wine, it certainly means that he supplied it. And, the party's chef is recorded as saying to the bridegroom, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now" (John 2:10 NIV). In other words, most party hosts serve up the powerful, great wine until everyone's drunk, and then switches to the cheap stuff when everyone's too loaded to know the difference. Vintage Jesus, however, is better than the good stuff that they filled up with first.

Interesting slightly-off-topic theological point: Did you know that what Jesus turned into wine (later the sign of the new covenant in Christ's blood) was most likely the water that the Jews would have used to ceremonially wash when they came into the home (a sign of the old covenant and law of Moses?) Seems like Jesus already knew what he was doing, even back then.
 
Another point to be made in the wine discussion is the attitude of the Jewish culture in that day. Yes - the wine was just as potent then as now, however the attitude of the culture was one that a drunkard was unacceptable. Wine was an important part of their society and of their religious celebrations. The wine at the last supper was indeed "kosher" although the kosher tag was added at a later date. It still fell within their strict guidelines for food handeling and preperation. To be so it had to have fermented. At the Last Supper, as part of the Passover meal, four cups of wine were poured and consumed in a special order and each at a specific part of the meal. To quote a modern Jew who is now a Christian pastor, they would likely feel a "buzz" by the time the last cup was consumed. Drunk - I do not think so, but feeling the effects of some wine. Mind you, this was not a 30 minute meal, but followed a liturgy of some two hours if it was done in a hurry. Having sat in on a couple of Sedars, as they are now called, with it shortened but with explaination of the meal, lasted over three hours. Wine - real wine - was consumed by all. Teh Sedar finished with traditional Jewish dancing. Our society today does not understand the kind of restraint and attitude practiced by the Jews of the time of Christ.
 
People know when they are playing to much. It simply requires honesty and humility to admit that truth to ones self. There is a line where it becomes destructive and some online virtual environments are more conducive to become unhealthy. When your spiritual leveling shrinks..and takes a back seat to carnal leveling.. you have crossed the line. Christians know this, it's intuitive. Unbelievers know this..also.. Example: someone might brag they have all the epics from 25 mans.. but ..they have lost epics in real life.. neglected their wife..and kids.. lost their job... family.. You get the idea.

WWJBDING

If Jesus were on the Earth today, I believe that He'd be on the internet, playing games too.
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If He was literally on earth today, we already know what he would be doing. He would be destroying the wicked. "Wrath of the lamb" (Rev) Those who have utterly refused to repent.. He will be "gathering the wheat, and burning up the tares". Matt 13:40-43. At some point there will not be any unbelievers left playing wow. "Gather out of his kingdom them which do iniquity and cast them into fire".. "Then the righteous shall shine forth" But for now.. there are over 9 million ppl in this virtual world.. and I'm betting most are not saved.. I see no reason to neglect this mission field. Wherever the "field" is for you.. motives can become corrupt.. and we could find ourselves trying to justify our unhealthy motives via scripture. The issue is primarily an internal one. (Though some external things of course are inherantly destructive)

The point is this: Is it Godly to spend leisure time? Of course it is. As long as we do not violate any righteous standard in the process, harming our selves or others (Whether it's gaming, sports.., music, movies..playing pool, cards (Gasp.. cards/pool!!!!)

Wine

I'll add the following to what has already been shown, that God the father/son are not uptight about having a glass of wine.. Speaking of Israel's tithe under the law God told them to cash it in..and have a feast..and celebrate.

Deu 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household. And I doubt there was any dissention in the the ranks of the trinity.. Paul set down a criteria for leadership in the early church, that they not be given "to MUCH wine".. while the same Paul encouraged Timothy to have a "LITTLE" for health reasons.. Again the issue is motive, amount, self-control.

It's drunkenness, lack of self control, that is the issue.. because it alters ones mental faculties and makes them an unnecessary risk to others.. and for many it becomes their God, their place of refuge and escape (Just like this game can become to some, leaving ppl even more empty and bitter)
 
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Woven said:
It's drunkenness, lack of self control, that is the issue.. because it alters ones mental faculties and makes them an unnecessary risk to others.. and for many it becomes their God, their place of refuge and escape (Just like this game can become to some, leaving ppl even more empty and bitter)
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Nice Danny. I like this (and nice way of joining the two discussion here). I might also add that one of Paul's greatest complaints against alcohol was when the rich were eating and drinking and ignoring the poor in the church who were going without (I cant find the reference off the top of my head). The rich in the church were turning up early and getting drunk and eating to burst and the poor were turning up and having nothing. Paul used communion as a way of bringing the ppl back together and sharing and sharing alike. Th point being is that wine can either be a way of bringing ppl together or tearing ppl apart. I think WoW and GW can do the same thing. It can bring families, friends, and non-Christians together with Christians or it can tear families and friends apart and stop Christians from being effective. The choice as Danny said is an internal one.

In summary I read Adrian Plass' book a little while ago where he repeats the story of an ex-alcoholic who prayed as he took communion the line was that the wine in his hands represented both his destruction and his salvation.
 
/stand amazed

I stand amazed at the depth of this discussion. Thanks for your teaching and sharing. Being a bit "under the weather" due to pain, I can of late rarely get out to church and I miss it so. God uses small things like this thread to again touch my heart. Thanks for your awesome input.
 
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