Party @ the Sunwell?

[nattyg]

Now you know how it feels to be in one of your raids

Unless I'm missing something, by my count, in the past three months, you've attended 4 raids (perhaps I missed one and there was a fifth) of the ones we even deemed worth posting to wowwebstats. Given that, it seems that you're not coming from a very strong position to criticize how the raids are run, much less in this manner. Perhaps if you had a stronger attendance record you wouldn't need to grind badges or PvP to get items.

That aside, I know I have personally gone to some lengths to have things toned down in the raids, largely due to you complaining in the past. I believe we both are fully aware of the most recent event and the RLs have more than lived up to their side of it, however I see posts like this and I honestly can't fathom where you're coming from and given that whole convoluted mess I can't even begin to say how much this irks me.

 

[Where]

I have talked to you about how Ug is demeaning to people in the raid and I gave it a shot after you said he would be better and after Ug said mordos was gonna lead and it ended up with Ug leading and being his usual condesending self and THAT is why I dont raid anymore. If Mordos lead I would be there, I will not raid with Ug because his attitude is terrible and he talks down to everyone that hasnt raided as much as he has. You can hear him sigh in disgust everytime he has to explain lurker... if its that much of a problem for him then he should take some time off

 

[-Jad-]

I have talked to you about how Ug is demeaning to people in the raid and I gave it a shot after you said he would be better and after Ug said mordos was gonna lead and it ended up with Ug leading and being his usual condesending self and THAT is why I dont raid anymore. If Mordos lead I would be there, I will not raid with Ug because his attitude is terrible and he talks down to everyone that hasnt raided as much as he has. You can hear him sigh in disgust everytime he has to explain lurker... if its that much of a problem for him then he should take some time off

My friend although I understand your frustration, I think you need to understand that EVERYONE involved both leading the raid and participating in the raid has thier shortfalls and THEY are working on it Ug's tone at times may not be pleasing <to the ears> he does not mean to sound that way.. I have heard on many ocations Ug take time from playing/ Raiding to help people with strat, gear, ect. Some people show thier frustration in different ways. Some are good and some are not good, I am not judging which way it may be but, I do know that he has stated before he is working on it.

Let me ask, this have you ever sent him a whisper durring a raid to say " hey your shooting people down a bit" or " hey be calm. your frustration is showing and affecting people" ? This is where the whole Christian brotherhood comes in to play.... help each other succeed and in time of shortcommings help each other out.

 

[UgSneak]

I Know said I would not post but I had to read what Jad had to say and I have calmed down and I will still be taking the 2 week break from leading. I will show to raid but not lead somebody can deal with leading and the stress it is time for another person step up and lead. Also I have never received a whisper saying that I need to calm down or stop putting people down. I don't mean in any way to put people down or sound like it. If I am sounding like I am talking down to you then you need to please reevaluate what you think I talk like. I am Blunt and to the point I don't ever get on a person for asking a question I want people to say they don't know the strat and I will be happy to explain it. On lurker I do the whole spout reinactment and I expect everyone to follow along because practice makes perfect. Sometimes I get a little worked up when we die 6 times to a boss that we should not die more than 2 times too. I am sorry where you think I am talking down to you because I am not and have never in my mind ever talked down to you. I am sorry you had to air this in a public forum and make this area uncomfortable for me and make me rethink playing a game and being part of redeemed. We need to Fellowship together and help each other not tear apart a person in a public forum. I did it to you here and I am sorry, because contention is of the devil and I don't want to cause a problem between us that we can't work out and build apon our issues to over come them.

 

[Where]

Maybe you dont want to but you do come across as demeaning, I have heard it from many others as well. You yelled at me over vent and made it sound like I screwed up when it wasnt even my add that was loose. You acted like I couldnt tank that night and I took it personally. I talked to a few officers about it but I am sorry I didnt go to you. Frankly you intimidate me, I have never seen a softer side to Ug, at least with Mordos I have heard him making his Mitch Hedburg jokes and having fun.

I started this to show you guys what us lowly non officers and out of the phone loop guys think. Its great that you and Mordos talk everyday about raiding, but why not include everyone? Why cant we post thoughts and ideas and strats in these forums and get more people involved and get more people excited and looking forward to raids. I have lost all my love of raiding and that was a big factor in why this game continues on, if it wasnt for the friends I have made in this guild I would have gotten out of it long ago

 

[UgSneak]

I don't mind doing raid strat discussions after a raid or one night a week so that people don't feel left out of Mordos and mine discussions about raids. And on my Tone in Raid yes I am not nice there compared to other times. I just put on my leading Voice and start talking I don't mind questions and will answer them but I try to make it known with my tone that I will not be over talked or ignored or allow people to chat on tangents. I am very Serious and don't pull punches at that time but after the raid and out side of raiding I am a happy goo lucky person. Ask Jarlor just how much time I have spent talking to him about his spec and everything I am so happy with what he has done and how he has improved. I am willing to Talk and a big teddy bear in person. Yes please if you ever meet me in person don't feel intimidated because I am a giant. But a nice giant. Where Hang out with me some time outside of the raid and you will see that I am not a big meany.

 

[docnut]

I am glad that there at least now seems to some cooler heads prevailing. Jad appreciate the post. I don't much because I'm am just happy to be alive and enjoy playing the game with friends and family. We all have real and none of truly know each other in those real lives, the stresses, agravations, and just everyday dealing with life. That is why I love this guild we are christians but even the Lord displayed displeasure at times and chastised people. We sometimes need that strong hand to lead us above and beyond our capabilities.
I am a physcian but two years ago I was basically dead from complications but with my wife a nurse practitioner who is hard headed, a son Ug who now is facing some of the things my wife did two years ago, his faith and and love and the Lord I am alive and able to do what I love involve myself trying to find, diagnose, and fix children of our Lord.(Don't let me forget toid my brotherand his family.)
Why you may ask am I rambling like this because this is a game. One which kept me sane while in physical rehab for 3 months but still a game. I left Verndari because of the pressur to excell but while sick they where extremely helpful. They are a raiding guild if you did read or meet spec's you never raided. I had only been to Kara once before redeemed. I do not want to return to that but everything nevi, mordos, and ug says is true with someone not afraid to push we as a guild and in life can exceed our every expectation. Enjoy life enjoy the game both at times are struggles but each time we succeed or fail we grow. That is one of the true axioms of life. Criticism is helpful but also be willing to step into the shoes of the one to whom you direct it.
I made ug blunt I raised him but he is a wonderful man now who can be extremely focused you dont see our whispers but I get no breaks he has made me a better player in the game and truthfully in life.
Doc
read my signature and I pray we may live it.
Thank you in advance.

 

[Goodwone]

Wow, this is been a tough thread to read. This is a great game to play because of the wonderful Christian fellowship of this guild and I hate to see it go "poof." Having lead and organized a few raids (very few), I can say it is a difficult thing to do. It is easy to sit back and criticize when you haven't done it, or are not willing to do it. It can be a thankless position, one that simply can't please everyone with someone always chewing your ear off unhappy about something. Ug and Mordos have really been a blessing to this guild in many ways...yes Ug has pushed hard and challenged a few of you and maybe not in a way you liked but we all have things we need to work on and I'm sure he is also being challenged to grow here. He once told me on vent I couldn't hold agro (well, how dare he!)....and I found that a bit annoying but it also made me chuckle and work harder at learning how to play my part, and it challenged me....and I told him "I can so!" and worked at it. Mordos and Ug together have lead us deeper into raiding then we could have ever got without them and I really appreciate all the hard work and effort they have put into leading this guild however imperfect. And Mordos is just a big ole teddy bear. It's much easier to sit back and just let others do all the work then gripe when you don't like the results. Sure! offer construction criticism if you will, but then be willing to help....I think we are still looking for someone to lead Gruel and ZA so there is plenty of room for someone to step up and show us how it should be done if you think you can do better!! Commit to one night, and lead! Look how fantastic Goblit has done in Kara, everyone scrambles to go with her! I can't even get a spot anymore (but I do always sign-up as a backup because I want lesser geared tanks to be able to go for their gear drops).

We also have other ways of communicating with each other when you have a problem, like private email where you can hash things out or blow off some steam. Keep things in perspective folks, and encourage one another! I'm here for you guys if you need anything I'd be glad to listen (though don't bug me if I'm doing the simon sez thingie, it always messes me up).

Sorry for the wall of text....and this is not directed at anyone in specific.

 

[Where]

I love how its never directed at anyone specific yet its saying not to criticize the raid leaders and I'm the only one doing that in this thread heh

 

[Bringeroflight]

I would have to agree with Goodwone's thoughts on Goblit's kara raids.
She takes the time to find out who in the raid hasn't done a particular boss before. She then takes time to explain the series of events that unfold during an encounter. I for one, have come up under her raiding tutelage and I love raiding Kara because we function as one team.

I'm not trying to embarrass, Goblit, but I wanted to point out her perspective when it comes to raiding. It's just a game and when we wipe 3 times in a row it's no big deal. We refocus our strat and hit it again. We all have a common goal of trying to down that boss. I believe the competitive side of people comes out when you repeat wipe for similar reasons.

From a raidnoobs perspective, raiding is the best part of this game because I get to work with my guild mates and build relationships. I also get to do 'my' part in helping the team move forward. I want to take this time to thank everyone that has given me advice on how to heal/play better.

Everyone in this guild is a gift from God and serves His purpose. Let's remind ourselves of that fact in the future.

 

[nattyg]

I have talked to you about how Ug is demeaning to people in the raid and I gave it a shot after you said he would be better and after Ug said mordos was gonna lead and it ended up with Ug leading and being his usual condesending self and THAT is why I dont raid anymore. If Mordos lead I would be there, I will not raid with Ug because his attitude is terrible and he talks down to everyone that hasnt raided as much as he has. You can hear him sigh in disgust everytime he has to explain lurker... if its that much of a problem for him then he should take some time off

Where - he quite clearly made a mistake which he immediately corrected himself on - the mistake being that the wrong person was called out to get back on target, not his tone. If you're complaining that he was loud and didn't gently tell someone to get back on target - sorry, but that's just not going to happen in an instantaneous and confusing situation. If you (and in this case, it's really a generic 'you') can't handle that degree of correction without flipping out, then you probably should re-consider your presence in a likely chaotic scenario of a 25 man raid. Also, if you'll recall, you were given several (3...4?) opportunities to tank Lurker that evening - seemingly largely at the root of your previous complaint, so in my eyes - Ug did perfectly fine and again, catered to you.

 

[UgSneak]

I love how its never directed at anyone specific yet its saying not to criticize the raid leaders and I'm the only one doing that in this thread heh

In a Public Forum that is not positive and helpful to other people in the guild that causes DRAMA and demotivates the guild. Then Yes, Where I have said may times in the Thread come talk to me.

ANYONE that has issues with me and how I raid please come talk to me Directly so that we can work it out. If you have issues in a Raid I am running send me a Tell in the Raid Mostlikely I will ask you to talk to me after the Raid or after the boss pull so that we can go to a Private area and Chat feel free to bring a friend or an officer if you wish. In a Raid I am not trying to be mean or harsh I am just trying to be effective.

As some people said in this forum they are growing up on Goblit's style of Raiding and that is good and Goblit is a great Raid leader but she is not me. When a person is in the 25 man raids and it is a Non Progression Boss on a Progression Raid night (I.e. Lurker before we go to Tidewalker or Leo) I expect people to Know the boss strat and the fights and pulls. I don't expect to wipe 6 times and then kill the boss. My job is not to do new 25 man bosses (unless I really know them) my job as raid leader is to do the bosses we have already downed.

On Goodwones note about not being able to hold agro. Yes I said that to her and guess what she has proved me wrong. The time at lurker that you hear me say you can't tank it. I ment it as you can't Tank him right now. Yes I replaced a DPSer and brought in Mordos to Tank Lurker. We died the first pull because he DC'ed and then the second time we killed lurker. What I say in the raid about somebodies ablitiy is never to be taken as a forever statement. If I say you can't do something I mean it as right now you can't do it but next time we do this I will let you try it again.

Monday at HKM. I could have called it after the 4th death but I went to 7 deaths. I gave each of the DPS paladins a chance to learn to pull the mobs. We gave Kallek instruction on what to do to pull his mob. True I made a mistake on the 6th attempt and called a wipe when we would have pulled it out of the fire and finished HKM. I make mistakes and I am human.

But to come into the public forums and attack Me after never talking to me in person or sending me a PM is just wrong and I did not take it well.

What you have done here Where is Alienite the raid leaders to the point that both Mordos and I really don't want to even run raids anymore. You have made a really Thankless and stressful job a nightmare.

Ug.

 

[Goblit]

Thanks for the compliments guys, but I lead totallly different raids than Ug and Mordos does. Its my job to teach people to work as a team before they join the bigger group and get them geared up. Their job it to take those people who can work as a team and do more detailed "dances" to kill the bosses.....they are the progress leaders. They expect people in the raid to know the basics already. My raids are much more casual and we chat and joke around and have more time to get to know each other. I can't imagine running a progress raid that way...you would get no where.

Ug and I have talked about our different leading styles, and we are quite aware they are different. That doesn't make one right and the other wrong. They serve 2 different purposes. I want the guild to progress.....so we need leaders like Mordos and Ug who are willing to push us.

And for the record....Ug is just as much a teddy bear as Mordos is....just a little harder to get to know...but its worth the effort.

 

[treebranch]

I'm glad no one locked this thread earlier. I'm feeling the love.

 

[nattyg]

/hug tree

crap...i'm a hippy now

 

[Boimli]

Well, i can't say that I have ever gone on a raid lead by Ug, so I have no idea of his style of leading, etc. I can prolly safely assume that since he has been given the responsibility of leading raids by the officers in the guild that he has some great qualities to him, sometimes just not quite friendly enough for what some people want. But, as have been said earlier, its sometimes a stressful moment and politeness can't always be used. To me, it does show something of Ugs character that he did apologize for his actions, and is trying to do better. I hope I get the chance sometime soon to go on a raid that he is leading.

As for our other raid leaders, I have gotten a chance to run on some run by both Morods and Goblit, both who have differing raid styles, but get the job accomplished. I know that 10 mans are completly different from 25 mans, and things will sometimes get said in the heat of the moment but its not always the character of the person.

I want to say thank you to the raid leaders, but also the rest of the officers of the guild who help keep things up and running. From my previous experience in other games assisting in leading raids and other large scale events, it is a difficult task. While we are not a raiding guild, everyone wants to see us progress and move onto bigger and better things, just with varrying degrees. Perhaps instead of always running progression events, we can host more enjoyable things, such as: BG premade teams, raids on Horde cities, having 5 man competitions. (Those would be a tank + healer are chosen together at random for the team, and then DPS. All teams would do the same instance, maybe even the daily, with a small prize given to the team that finishes the quickest.

 

[Goblit]

Well, i can't say that I have ever gone on a raid lead by Ug, so I have no idea of his style of leading, etc. I can prolly safely assume that since he has been given the responsibility of leading raids by the officers in the guild that he has some great qualities to him, sometimes just not quite friendly enough for what some people want. But, as have been said earlier, its sometimes a stressful moment and politeness can't always be used. To me, it does show something of Ugs character that he did apologize for his actions, and is trying to do better. I hope I get the chance sometime soon to go on a raid that he is leading.

As for our other raid leaders, I have gotten a chance to run on some run by both Morods and Goblit, both who have differing raid styles, but get the job accomplished. I know that 10 mans are completly different from 25 mans, and things will sometimes get said in the heat of the moment but its not always the character of the person.

I want to say thank you to the raid leaders, but also the rest of the officers of the guild who help keep things up and running. From my previous experience in other games assisting in leading raids and other large scale events, it is a difficult task. While we are not a raiding guild, everyone wants to see us progress and move onto bigger and better things, just with varrying degrees. Perhaps instead of always running progression events, we can host more enjoyable things, such as: BG premade teams, raids on Horde cities, having 5 man competitions. (Those would be a tank + healer are chosen together at random for the team, and then DPS. All teams would do the same instance, maybe even the daily, with a small prize given to the team that finishes the quickest.

Sounds like some great ideas! You got the job....comes with no material benefits, no salary, no title,and the health plan sucks...but its all yours! Bring your ideas to life...that is what makes this guild awesome.

 

[UgSneak]

Sounds like some great ideas! You got the job....comes with no material benefits, no salary, no title,and the health plan sucks...but its all yours! Bring your ideas to life...that is what makes this guild awesome.

Congratz on the Promotion Boimli.

So Goblit he getting Tuesday nights?

 

[Mordos]

First, I've been holding off posting afraid of saying things that I would not want later.

So I thought some words from someone far more wise then I:


Proverbs 21:23:
23He who guards his mouth and his tongue, Guards his soul from troubles.
Matthew 5:9
9"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.
Matthew 18:21-22
21Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?"
22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Romans 12:18
18If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all men.
Romans 14:19
19So then we pursue the things which make for peace and the building up of one another.
Titus 3:1-2
1Remind them to be subject to rulers, to authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good deed,
2to malign no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing every consideration for all men.

 

[Goblit]

Congratz on the Promotion Boimli.

So Goblit he getting Tuesday nights?

Didn't know Tuesay nights were mine to give....but its fine by me.