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Mordos said:
A mistake would be demoting me to probation, or member like Jad did when demoting me, but then promoted me to Vet... And I'm still there (If I was removed from Class Lead all I ask is tell me). Many actions have been made to remove all hint of Goblit and I, yet people talk about all we did for the guild. The leadership seems to be working hard on getting us completely out... yet I had Guild Leads telling me they wish me to return to leading. Seems like a smoke screen to keep me happy. We are being treated like I was removed or in the words of an officer "suspended"... Really? I thought I left on my own. that is just a hint, a tip of this heap of mixed ideas of what happen. I would subjest that all the Guild Leaders and maybe the officers get together and actually get on the same page. So that the mistreatment of the guild members stops and we can get back to having fun in this game we play.
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Ok, so it was a mistake. I know I would have demoted you to member.. not because I don't think you should be a class lead, but because I honestly wouldn't consider it. It's easy, at least for me, to forget about promoting/demoting to that rank. If we wanted you out we'd do it and be done with it. What has happened to this point is surely more trouble than just gkicking you. That in itself should show that we don't want you out and are trying to make this all work. Like I said... if we wanted you both out it'd just be a matter of gkicking you. We don't want that. You have built an awesome raid system and Goblit has contributed in every manner imagineable. You both stepped down... so what does that mean? It might mean something different to you than it does to me. It might mean something different to each and every officer in Redeemed. If you step down do we leave you at your rank and just know you aren't going to lead. Do we demote you to a regular officer? Do we demote you all the way to member? Therein lies the problem.. you step down and the person who did the demoting assumed you were stepping down to being a member. Why not come to one of us and say, "I would still like to be a class lead." rather than jump on the forums and write a very public criticism of leadership because we made a mistake in not knowing exactly what it means when you step down.

While in most cases I would agree and I would do that is the leadership wishes, but these actions were extreamly public and should be handled in public. If it was private it needs to be handled in private.
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And the reason this is all very public is because there is no private way to demote someone. It announces it to the whole guild. That is the only thing that we did to make it public. You wrote several posts to further bring the reasoning into the light and are continuing to do so. Please act in a manner to not cause division between us and let's move this to a more private place.
 
john3610 said:
Ok, so it was a mistake. I know I would have demoted you to member.. not because I don't think you should be a class lead, but because I honestly wouldn't consider it. It's easy, at least for me, to forget about promoting/demoting to that rank. If we wanted you out we'd do it and be done with it. What has happened to this point is surely more trouble than just gkicking you. That in itself should show that we don't want you out and are trying to make this all work. Like I said... if we wanted you both out it'd just be a matter of gkicking you. We don't want that. You have built an awesome raid system and Goblit has contributed in every manner imagineable. You both stepped down... so what does that mean? It might mean something different to you than it does to me. It might mean something different to each and every officer in Redeemed. If you step down do we leave you at your rank and just know you aren't going to lead. Do we demote you to a regular officer? Do we demote you all the way to member? Therein lies the problem.. you step down and the person who did the demoting assumed you were stepping down to being a member. Why not come to one of us and say, "I would still like to be a class lead." rather than jump on the forums and write a very public criticism of leadership because we made a mistake in not knowing exactly what it means when you step down.



And the reason this is all very public is because there is no private way to demote someone. It announces it to the whole guild. That is the only thing that we did to make it public. You wrote several posts to further bring the reasoning into the light and are continuing to do so. Please act in a manner to not cause division between us and let's move this to a more private place.
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I asked to be demoted....Tree asked me to wait and stay. Obviously it was never passed on that I agreed to that. Communication has never been the best in the guild and that is just one small example. I don't want to fight about it. Tree gets spammed with pms from me (just ask him). The officers need to work on the communication issues. I think publically stating the way that you are planning to handle disagreements between guild members is an awesome start but don't think your done there. Now you have to do it.

<takes deep breath, picks up her soapbox, and goes to her quiet place to patiently wait for calm>
 
Aight. Great. I didn't know that Goblit. I will make a note about promoting you back to raid leader and the forums. Thank you for your patience.
 
Ok, I was taken to the Bible and Luther.

The earnest prayer that it will be a blessing to the church as we live and work together in the spirit of Paul’s charge that we be “eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace” (Eph. 4:3).

“Besides our own body, our spouse, and our temporal property, we have one more treasure that is indispensable to us, namely, our honor and good reputation…God does not want our neighbors to be deprived of their reputation, honor, and character….” (Luther).
 
Bill, you might want to get you facts all straight... and the demotion is just a part of it all... sure you might be able to explain one thing but them all... it's amazing how access to forums, vent channels, ranks, all gone. suprised you make copies of the policies and remove my access from those or the DKP... just some ideas for you all.

Bah, I'll stop this is not going anywhere but down hill... you reason how ever you want, actions speak louder than words.
I'm going to go walk and pray all this stuff is dealt with, it's in Gods hands.
 
This has always been the way with Redeemed, way back when I had my issues with Mordos I talked to at least 3 officers about it and told they would talk to him. Kept happening so I went to them all again and was brushed off and basically told to deal with it. Nothing ever happened until I asked publicly to be removed from his Kara team and he PMed me and when I replied back and told him my feelings he called me on the phone and we worked things out just fine. It was my fault for letting it go so long without going to him myself but I didn't get any help from the officers and when I talked to Chris on the phone he stated no one ever mentioned the way I was feeling to him.

Mordos and Gobby probably know a lot more than I do about the behind the scenes workings of Redeemed but most of us non-officers have NO CLUE what you guys are doing and you never talk about it in public. Our forums are full of spam and hardly any useful information, it was so nice in Sanctification when we would actually post our raiding goals in the public forum for everyone to chime in on. Redeemed seems to keep everything from raiding goals to every other policy we use under wraps until the officers decide its a good complete idea and never let the general population have an opinion. Are you really that scared we cant handle the truth or have an opinion of our own? We seem to have to blindly follow whatever is going on.

If you want to put together a progression team and crank down on the requirements to be able to participate (that may exclude some people for the first month or whatever until fights are learned and downed regularly) why not ask the guild as a whole instead of letting 2 or 3 peoples opinions speak for the 300 or so members in the guild.


I also remind you Bill this "event" got blown out of proportion BECAUSE it was kept private, had the issues come out sooner and the unnamed gone to Mordos the emotion on both sides would of never had a chance to well up inside until it almost had to explode to get out.
 
Dude, seriously... would y'all cut it out! lol

Trying to make things right. And continuing this conversation is just causing more problems.

Where and Mordos, I am gonna say it specifically to you. Please stop!

Where, you are not involved. You do not have all the facts. You don't know why this got blown out of proportion. And I am not going to bring it up here because honestly it has nothing to do with anyone but the people involved. Mordos stepped down and we didn't handle it the way he expected. We're trying to fix that but having it here in this forum is not helping anyone and is only making things more difficult.

Mordos, let's talk about this maturely without trying to embarrass and put down the officers and their decisions. You are not showing maturity or humility. Let's talk about this in a private place. No one is claming we did everything right. But don't jump to the conclusion we are out to get you. Show maturity and a spirit of peace. I have invited you numerous times to take this conversation elsewhere so that we can avoid having the whole guild divided.
Why are you refusing to do so?
 
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Jad - You've shown great leadership here. You confronted difficult issues, you made difficult decisions and acted on them swiftly, you put up with loads of second-guessing and backseat driving ... and then here, you've aired all the dirty laundry (including your own) to ensure transparency. I don't think we could ask any more and we're luckyk to have you. Thank you for taking on the no-fun role in service to all of us.
 
john3610 said:
Thank you.

I have started a thread in the officer forum so all the officers can talk. Please give us a little bit of time (1-2 days if that) and we will resolve this issue.
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Exactly my point:p

You are right Gilga, Jad did an awesome job with the post, I wish everyone was as eager to ensure transparency.

If you have 2 friends fighting the only way to settle the argument is to sit down with a witness/mediator and work things out. If you try to keep them seperate they will just get more and more upset with each other and the he-said she-said gets out of control.
 
I know more than you think I do! I have been respectful in not naming names and using past information to try to get you guys to see that hiding this from the public does not help! You should hear whats being said in whispers about this. You are gonna try to keep it from the public long enough that they forget it or it calms down so you dont have to explain it, I have been there before lol.
 
Aight. When I get off work I'll give you a call. I think I've spent enough company time in the forums for today... lol.
 
Where said:
wow took months to get access for everyone to those forums but hours to get it revoked accidentally? lol
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@ my friend Where -- there's no way getting arond how this looks. But I have been (for various undeserved reasons) privy to more background info tham most on this and I give my personal assurance that there was no conspiracy here. The only attempt at an answer I can provide is that this is evidence of God's sense of humor ... if there weren't some inexplicable things happening around to give us something to drama around, we'd *only* have spam on the forums and, you know, that'd be no good...

Goblit said:
Communication has never been the best in the guild and that is just one small example.
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@ my friend Goblit, yes you are right. But not for lack of trying! About a month ago, I had the privilege of taking my wife to see the movie "He's just not that in to you." There's a semi-funny-line (it's a semi-funny movie) that also showed up in previews where a character talks about how she got a Facebook wall post and responded with an email and got a text message back and then left a voicemail etc etc. It's kind of the same in guild. Someone said somethign in guild chat that was commented on in vent that resulted in someone sending an email that someone posted in the raid admin forums that led to someone sending a PM, etc tec And we're surprised that everything and everyone isn't all in sync? In RL, when things start to go sideways, you get everyone in a room and air it out. The closest we come to that in game is vent meetings ... but those are always hard to schedule ... and like Tree's pointed out, it's Easter week and that's just not logistically possible.

SEPARATELY ... when we're dealing with difficult issues, it can totally be exhausting. And when a GL has just spend 2 hours online and in vent fielding questions and resolving issues -- the last thing they then want to do then go to the forums and type up a report to get everyone caught up. But that's what often has to happen to keep everyone on the same page ... but it won't happen. Anyhow, we keep on trying to make communication better. Really. But communication's always going to be a problem, despite best efforts. So we'll always need to ask for the guild's patience, understanding, and the benefit of the doubt.

I don't think any of us are clever enough to pull off an effective conspiracy...
 
this is soooo tiring, I have been in this guild for three years, yeah took some time away but it always seems to go back to the same page, i think those who cant handle the heat get out of the kitchen!! mordos and gobby always done their all for us!! Sweeping things under the rug is not gonna help, yeah keep it private and get all the other guild members uptight cause they dont knwo what is going on.. I consider gobby and mordos a great assest to the guild and a friend... How many people that think mordos is intimidating ever heard him on vent doing mitch?? I was falling out of my chair laughing! thats not intimidating, on raids you have to have the tone to get people susceed, and gobby she's the best always down to help a guilde out no matter what.. To be honest this whole thing hurts because it is wanted to keep private.. granted I am not a leader but i feel redeemed is a family and families shoudl make decisions and work out problems TOGETHER!! and not hit people when they are down!!
 
The reason we are trying to keep private is because some of the issues are possible sin issues that all of Redeemed doesn't need to know about. Things that are possibly reputation damaging and could cause hard feelings between members of Redeemed. We are trying to avoid that by attempting to keep things in private. The part that everyone is hearing about is Mordos and Goblit being taken out of the forums and being demoted. Everything else has been kept under wraps because we do not feel it is appropriate to share everything with the guild.
And we are respecting Mordos by not sharing what we discussed with him and with the people involved. Please trust us that we are not trying to hide the issue of Mordos stepping down, only trying to let people deal with heart issues on their own without the whole guild being involved.

I promise that we are not trying to hide anything from Redeemed, but are trying to move forward in a manner that is honoring to God. I know that most of you would not want your sin to be aired publicly and we are trying not to do that.

(I am speaking not just about Mordos, but about each of the people involved as well. Please no one jump on me about pointing fingers at Mordos, because I am certainly not doing that. Only pointing out that brothers and sisters in Christ have not dealt with each other in a manner that Christ calls us to and we feel it is important to let them deal with those issues with each other without other people being involved, because honestly unless it is unrepentant sin that goes on and on it is no business of anyones.)
 
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uhg this whole thing is making me sick.

I think there is a HUGE misconception here. This is NOT about the way mordos leads raids. It is a conflict between people that happens to involve a leader so that's when it became public. There's nothing about the situation that EVERYBODY should know. Stop trying to stick up for Goblit and Mordos...there is no victim here. I havent encountered ONE person that has not complimented mordos or gobby in one way or another about how they've helped the guild as far as raiding. May i remind you Mordos made the choice to step down. This is about personal fouls against other people that do not need to be discussed with the entire guild.
 
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