Harry Potter is the Devil!

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ]You're conviction is supported by facts..but that does not translate to your belief being a fact.

according to your logic of there being no facts...

Quote[/b] ] just feel that 'knowing' that there is a God and all that goes along with him is true defeats the entire purpose of having faith.

Thats a false impression I hear from a lot of non Christians, so let me clarify. The Bible never teaches us to have faith that God exists. The Bible clearly teaches us to have faith in God that He will come through for us. That He is not dead in a tomb, but alive, and knows what is going on, and there to fall back on.
A verse that supports the idea of us knowing there is a God would be John 17:3.

Quote[/b] ]The point is, you say that the more people live by the Bible, as opposed to, say, the Quran or the Torah, there would be less conflict and animosity?  I do not think so...both of those texts, as well as pretty much every other major religion's respective teachings, are peaceful, and focus on bringing the best out of humanity.  Everyone thinks they are right, and it is from this that conflicts arise.  Ironic, isn't it?

Indeed. Proverbs 14:12 I'm not out to make the world a more peaceful place. That would be nice, but it won't happen. If the world was a peaceful place, then the Bible would be counterdicted in a prophecy. So if you want to disprove Christianity, all you have to do is stop the war in the middle east... Anyway back on subject. I'm out to lead people to Christ. We live a short time down here, I don't really think it matters how comfortable we are. (pretty easy for me to say living in America, heh) Other religions might try to lead the world to peace, but Christianity is about giving eternal life out for free. It sounds crazy, it sounds like there must be a catch, but I guess thats not my problem. Its not crazy and there is no catch. There is no "best in humanity" were all sinners. We were born into sin. There is only salvation.

Quote[/b] ]you said that you have yet to see a belief that as gone through as much scrutiny as Christianity and still 'holds true'..not sure what you meant by that bit, but what about Judaism?

That is quite a question. The Jews were, and still are God's people. The Jewish Scripture( the Tanak? &Torah) is true, and I believe it. The Tanak? (not 100% positive on the name) is the Hebrew(Aramaic speaking Jews) Bible, which is also the old testament. The Torah is the 1st five books of the old testament, which is believed to be written by Moses.
The Jewish religion, is not a false belief. I believe every word of the old testament. The reason I call myself a Christian and not a Jew is because I have faith that Jesus Christ is God.(however I do know there is a God) The Jews rejected Jesus, and are still waiting for a messiah I guess, I don't know. The Jews don't accept the new testament (mainly any writtings of Paul) wich I believe to be the key to salvation. make sense?

**edited to capitalize some stuff

 

[TheJfreak]

there are some wrong preacheres out there i call them hippocrites they had them during jesus times and there are some now or alot and missionarys do not give them junk if they pray with us. We share with them jesus and we pray for them and not all do that some of us are teachers or they help us mks

 

[Guest]

but what if they have their own faith, y go tell them that they are wrong and u are right. I personally think u should let them be. If god wants them to be christian he'll change them in his own way.

 

[TheJfreak]

Im just stopping you are never gonna relent so adios

 

[Guest]

la su derecha
Tenga un buen día

 

[Master~Plan]

I look up to people like your parents TheJ. They are on the front lines.

Quote[/b] ]but what if they have their own faith, y go tell them that they are wrong and u are right. I personally think u should let them be.

heh, yeah cuz its not like you would ever tell anyone they are wrong...

Quote[/b] ]If god wants them to be christian he'll change them in his own way.

this could be a wild assumption, but maybe, just maybe God is using TheJ's parents in His own way, to change the people He wants? I dunno that just might be crazy talk...  

 

[TheJfreak]

thanks master for your support and in affrica it was like that but here at least right now we are just seeing if there are unreached tribal groups but if we lived in mongloia we would be liveing in a gurt with the nomads that is a sacrafice man

 

[Guest]

I tell everyone that their wrong, but maybe god wants them to find god on their own. I still think its the same as jeuvas wittness. What front lines, I thiught christians are tollerant to all religions. But I guess u only accept them until u get a chance to convert them. If u come to my neighborhood and tell some kids that their religion is wrong and they should find Jesus, all u'll hear is the gun shot.
Think about how much we could learn if we don't interfear with normads. They might look at things differently, but I think its a plus.
Would we have aspirin if we never say native indians chewing on bark.

 

[Guest]

oh yeah I can't speak spanish wsa just playing around with the google translator

 

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ]I tell everyone that their wrong, but maybe god wants them to find god on their own.

great, another non Christian who knows what God wants...

Quote[/b] ]What front lines, I thiught christians are tollerant to all religions.

If you want to make assumptions, thats your call. Just don't go into an argument not knowing what your talking about. If you had read any of the Bible at all, you would not have that false impression...

Quote[/b] ]But I guess u only accept them until u get a chance to convert them.

Jesus accepts everyone at any time... I'm tired of people trying to feel sorry for themselves...Rev3:20

Quote[/b] ]If u come to my neighborhood and tell some kids that their religion is wrong and they should find Jesus, all u'll hear is the gun shot.

bullets can't silence the Word of God

Quote[/b] ]Would we have aspirin if we never say native indians chewing on bark.

uh, alrite... where are you going with this?

 

[Guest]

I don't know what god wants, but unless u've sat down with him and talked over a cup of tea u don't know either. Remember God is great and we are flawed humans.

I have read the Bible, it was about 10-12 years ago, but when I was young I used to read it with my mom before I go to bed.

I know Jesus excepts everyone at any time, but what if he knocks on the door and I don't feel like opening. What I'm trying to say is I don't like it when people go around trying to force their beliefs on to people. I think if they want to learn more about Jesus and comes to u with questions then u can show what your religion is about. But y not leave them and their beliefs alone.

Don't misunderstand I think its cool u have a strong faith in christianity. I just don't have that kind of faith anymore. And I know there are some good missionaries out there. I know in India there's a group of them that feed and treat the homeless. And my grandma gives them money every month and helps them out sometimes. But they let the people the help have their own beliefs, unless they are curious and ask about christianity.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ July 12 2004,9:52)]I look up to people like your parents TheJ. They are on the front lines.

Quote[/b] ]but what if they have their own faith, y go tell them that they are wrong and u are right. I personally think u should let them be.

heh, yeah cuz its not like you would ever tell anyone they are wrong...

Quote[/b] ]If god wants them to be christian he'll change them in his own way.

this could be a wild assumption, but maybe, just maybe God is using TheJ's parents in His own way, to change the people He wants? I dunno that just might be crazy talk...  

You're right, I shouldn't tell people that they're wrong...and if I do, tell me and I'll stop.  I do like to give suggestions tho..things to consider and such..which I guess can be translated into telling people that they're wrong, but I really don't think so.  For all I know, they could be right.  I do not like it when people claim to know everything about something and believe themselves to be absolutely right.  I used to be that way..I'm on the way out from being that way actually...it was bad..and I don't want to go back.  As I like to say..in a world with so many wrongs, how can you reasonably assume to be the only one that's right?  And I'll reply to other stuff tommorow...bleh..too tired right now.  Been gone all day.  Gnite.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ July 11 2004,2:41)]

Quote[/b] ]You're conviction is supported by facts..but that does not translate to your belief being a fact.

according to your logic of there being no facts...

Quote[/b] ] just feel that 'knowing' that there is a God and all that goes along with him is true defeats the entire purpose of having faith.

Thats a false impression I hear from a lot of non Christians, so let me clarify. The Bible never teaches us to have faith that God exists. The Bible clearly teaches us to have faith in God that He will come through for us. That He is not dead in a tomb, but alive, and knows what is going on, and there to fall back on.
A verse that supports the idea of us knowing there is a God would be John 17:3.

Quote[/b] ]The point is, you say that the more people live by the Bible, as opposed to, say, the Quran or the Torah, there would be less conflict and animosity?  I do not think so...both of those texts, as well as pretty much every other major religion's respective teachings, are peaceful, and focus on bringing the best out of humanity.  Everyone thinks they are right, and it is from this that conflicts arise.  Ironic, isn't it?

Indeed. Proverbs 14:12 I'm not out to make the world a more peaceful place. That would be nice, but it won't happen. If the world was a peaceful place, then the Bible would be counterdicted in a prophecy. So if you want to disprove Christianity, all you have to do is stop the war in the middle east... Anyway back on subject. I'm out to lead people to Christ. We live a short time down here, I don't really think it matters how comfortable we are. (pretty easy for me to say living in America, heh) Other religions might try to lead the world to peace, but Christianity is about giving eternal life out for free. It sounds crazy, it sounds like there must be a catch, but I guess thats not my problem. Its not crazy and there is no catch. There is no "best in humanity" were all sinners. We were born into sin. There is only salvation.

Quote[/b] ]you said that you have yet to see a belief that as gone through as much scrutiny as Christianity and still 'holds true'..not sure what you meant by that bit, but what about Judaism?

That is quite a question. The Jews were, and still are God's people. The Jewish Scripture( the Tanak? &Torah) is true, and I believe it. The Tanak? (not 100% positive on the name) is the Hebrew(Aramaic speaking Jews) Bible, which is also the old testament. The Torah is the 1st five books of the old testament, which is believed to be written by Moses.
The Jewish religion, is not a false belief. I believe every word of the old testament. The reason I call myself a Christian and not a Jew is because I have faith that Jesus Christ is God.(however I do know there is a God) The Jews rejected Jesus, and are still waiting for a messiah I guess, I don't know. The Jews don't accept the new testament (mainly any writtings of Paul) wich I believe to be the key to salvation. make sense?

**edited to capitalize some stuff

Hrmm. I am disconcerted by you insisting that you 'know' that there is a God. I assume you mean in the literal sense..so I don't see how that's logical. Ok, the Bible says that faith does not necessarily involve believing in the existence of God as opposed to believing 'in' him, but that does not mean that you know that there is a God. By definition in this context..know means that you have no doubts whatsoever. Of course you will want to hastily say that this is true, but hold on a second. If any one thing gives you doubt, any one circumstance that could conceivably in the enormous realm of possibility disprove your statement, then you cannot 'know.' Of course, you can come up with an explanation for something that could disprove it, but you do not know if that explanation is correct. For instance, the existance dinosaurs, just to throw one out. But there are sooo many things like that, you can never know. So I think you are fooling yourself when you say that belief has nothing to do with it...and there's nothing wrong with that, that's how it should be in my opinion. Makes the most sense, and you remain truest to your beliefs that way. I'm sorry for making such an issue of it..it's not really that important..but it was bothering me for some reason. Anyways, so you don't think it matters how comfortable we are because we're here for such a short time.. Um, hmm, I don't think that seems very fair. Who are you to make that decision for all of human kind? Sure you think you're right, but then so does some other person in Iran, and some other person in Syberia, and some other person in New York. You may only care about salvation and subsequent eternal life, but others who do not may not take too kindly to that belief.. More importantly, they may not take too kindly to that belief's worldly consequences. As for your last bit, I have the same question but this time about Islam. Do you feel that that is a 'false belief'?

 

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ] Of course you will want to hastily say that this is true, but hold on a second.  If any one thing gives you doubt, any one circumstance that could conceivably in the enormous realm of possibility disprove your statement, then you cannot 'know.'  Of course, you can come up with an explanation for something that could disprove it, but you do not know if that explanation is correct.  For instance, the existance dinosaurs, just to throw one out.  But there are sooo many things like that, you can never know.  So I think you are fooling yourself when you say that belief has nothing to do with it...and there's nothing wrong with that, that's how it should be in my opinion.  Makes the most sense, and you remain truest to your beliefs that way.  

alrite, you can have your opinions. I'm not going to try to convince you that I know there is a God. I"ll just tell you that I do. Take it for what its worth... Stories over the internet don't hold the same value as if you go and personally talk to someone... Probably because of all the crap that is bombarded on the net.
If someone is trieng to make themeself believe that they KNOW for sure when they really don't, I think there is pleanty wrong with that. The false prophets will be judged the hardest...

Quote[/b] ] Anyways, so you don't think it matters how comfortable we are because we're here for such a short time..  Um, hmm, I don't think that seems very fair.  Who are you to make that decision for all of human kind?  Sure you think you're right, but then so does some other person in Iran, and some other person in Syberia, and some other person in New York.  You may only care about salvation and subsequent eternal life, but others who do not may not take too kindly to that belief..  More importantly, they may not take too kindly to that belief's worldly consequences.

I'm not responsible for other peoples beliefs. To each thier own. Maybe I don't like the color of the sky...

Quote[/b] ]As for your last bit, I have the same question but this time about Islam.  Do you feel that that is a 'false belief'?

no, I don't believe in Islam. Galations 1:6 is a good verse for mormons and Muslim. You can't found a religion on what an angel says. The angel need corroboration. They don't believe Jesus to be God, like the majority of Jews. Unlike the Jewish Scripture, the quran is not even God inspired. They don't even believe Jesus was hung on a cross, I forget how they believe he died... Muhammad comes along 570 years after Christ died and says "nope, Jesus didn't die on a cross, all those written accounts, are made up, and the witnesses are lieng..." (not exact quotes of course) The quran was written by some heretic...Any muslim will tell you how Christians and Jews corrupted the scripture, but thier belief started 600 years after everything happened. They claim to worship God, but I don't see how thats possible. They reject the Bible, and they reject Christ. They even reject the Jewish Yaweh of the Old Testament.

 

[Mr.Bill]

Quote[/b] (Master~Plan @ July 13 2004,1:24)]

Quote[/b] ] Of course you will want to hastily say that this is true, but hold on a second.  If any one thing gives you doubt, any one circumstance that could conceivably in the enormous realm of possibility disprove your statement, then you cannot 'know.'  Of course, you can come up with an explanation for something that could disprove it, but you do not know if that explanation is correct.  For instance, the existance dinosaurs, just to throw one out.  But there are sooo many things like that, you can never know.  So I think you are fooling yourself when you say that belief has nothing to do with it...and there's nothing wrong with that, that's how it should be in my opinion.  Makes the most sense, and you remain truest to your beliefs that way.  

alrite, you can have your opinions. I'm not going to try to convince you that I know there is a God. I"ll just tell you that I do. Take it for what its worth... Stories over the internet don't hold the same value as if you go and personally talk to someone... Probably because of all the crap that is bombarded on the net.
If someone is trieng to make themeself believe that they KNOW for sure when they really don't, I think there is pleanty wrong with that. The false prophets will be judged the hardest...

Quote[/b] ] Anyways, so you don't think it matters how comfortable we are because we're here for such a short time..  Um, hmm, I don't think that seems very fair.  Who are you to make that decision for all of human kind?  Sure you think you're right, but then so does some other person in Iran, and some other person in Syberia, and some other person in New York.  You may only care about salvation and subsequent eternal life, but others who do not may not take too kindly to that belief..  More importantly, they may not take too kindly to that belief's worldly consequences.

I'm not responsible for other peoples beliefs. To each thier own. Maybe I don't like the color of the sky...

Quote[/b] ]As for your last bit, I have the same question but this time about Islam.  Do you feel that that is a 'false belief'?

no, I don't believe in Islam. Galations 1:6 is a good verse for mormons and Muslim. You can't found a religion on what an angel says. The angel need corroboration. They don't believe Jesus to be God, like the majority of Jews. Unlike the Jewish Scripture, the quran is not even God inspired. They don't even believe Jesus was hung on a cross, I forget how they believe he died... Muhammad comes along 570 years after Christ died and says "nope, Jesus didn't die on a cross, all those written accounts, are made up, and the witnesses are lieng..." (not exact quotes of course) The quran was written by some heretic...Any muslim will tell you how Christians and Jews corrupted the scripture, but thier belief started 600 years after everything happened. They claim to worship God, but I don't see how thats possible. They reject the Bible, and they reject Christ. They even reject the Jewish Yaweh of the Old Testament.

Um, I don't know what you mean by 'stories off the internet'..I didn't say anything about the internet..and I'm very well aware that it's unreliable a lot of the time. As for the rest...that's the dangerous attitude I'm talking about.. Question: Does your opinion on the Islam faith affect the way you view the conflict in the Middle East?

 

[Guest]

I think stories from the internet is for me.

 

[Master~Plan]

Quote[/b] ]Um, I don't know what you mean by 'stories off the internet'..

I was talking about if I gave you my personal stories...

Quote[/b] ]Does your opinion on the Islam faith affect the way you view the conflict in the Middle East?

no, the conflict in the middle east (though tragic)doesn't really affect me. I don't have an accurate view on the conflict, because I'm not there.

 

[Guest]

Here's quote from a the site I linked at the bottom of my post. This is a pretty good site about Islam. Someone recomended it to me.

Quote[/b] ]The Qur’an says that Jesus was mistreated, denied and rejected by his people just as other prophets were also mistreated. Some of his contemporaries opposed him and tried to crucify him. It is also reported in the Christian Bible that Jesus prayed to God to save him from his enemies and remove the “cup of death” from him. (“If thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” Mark 14:36 and Luke 22:42) God accepted Jesus’ prayer and saved him from crucifixion or death on the cross. He was lifted up to heaven (Al-Nisa’: 157-158). Jesus is yet to fulfill his Messianic role. Muslims believe that Jesus will come back to earth before the end of time and will restore peace and order, struggle against the Anti-Christ (Dajjal) or demonic forces, and bring victory for truth and righteousness. The true followers of Jesus will prevail over those who deny him, misrepresent him and reject him.

islamonline-Jesus

Quote[/b] ]*{[And remember] when Allah said: O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself, and cleanse you of those who disbelieve; and I will make those who follow [you] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to me you will [all] return, and I will judge between you as to that wherein you used to differ. And as for those who disbelieve I will punish them with severe torment in this world and the Hereafter; and they will have no helpers.}* (Aal `Imran 3:55-56)

 

[Avesther]

I am wondering, did you catch the contradiciton between the quotes?

Here, let me make it clear:

God accepted Jesus’ prayer and saved him from crucifixion or death on the cross. He was lifted up to heaven (Al-Nisa’: 157-158). Jesus is yet to fulfill his Messianic role. (In the first quote)

and in the second quote:

and I will make those who follow [you] superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.

The don't believe Jesus is dead, how can he be resurrected? Muslims belive that Jesus was raised (taken) up to God without death. Returning to Earth and being resurrected are two very different concepts.

 

[Guest]

good point, maybe its a bad translation.
Ok NM I looked to see if there are different translations of the quran like the bible and there is but it still says resurection

Quote[/b] ] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then unto Me ye will (all) return, and I shall judge between you as to that wherein ye used to differ.

but the word resurection can also mean:
The act of bringing back to practice, notice, or use; revival.
So it could just be coming back to earth, but I guess that has a few holes in it.

But good catch