Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas tagged with Adults Only 18+ ESRB rating

[Tek7 (Legacy)]

New York, NY – July 20, 2005 –Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. (NASDAQ: TTWO) announced today that the Entertainment Software Rating Board (ESRB) has changed the rating of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas on all platforms from "Mature 17+" (M) to "Adults Only 18+" (AO) because of the so-called "hot coffee mod," an unauthorized third party modification that alters the retail version of the game. Take-Two cooperated fully with the ESRB's investigation.

Source: Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Announces Conclusion of ESRB Investigation

Rather than write out a full opinion on this situation, I will limit myself to the following statement: Withholding information from the ESRB was a foolish decision.

 

[SirThom]

Ouch. Smooth move, Rockstar.

 

[Gandhi]

What is the hot coffee mod.
GTA is one of the best games on the xbox right now.
I don't think the rating makes a difference. Now a days atleast in canada 14+ allows topless nudity.

 

[B-man]

the hot coffee mod unlocks a secret sex mini game for the pc version. There are action replay codes and ingame codes that unlock it for the ps2 version aswell.

 

[Pelagrin]

What is the hot coffee mod.
GTA is one of the best games on the xbox right now.
I don't think the rating makes a difference. Now a days atleast in canada 14+ allows topless nudity.

I wondered that and did a search. From what I read, it's a mini game simulating sex. It's computer rendered, but extremely graphic. I played the very first GTA game on the PC about 7 years ago when it was poor graphics and a top down perspective. I didn't think much of the game then. When the next gen versions came out I had no desire to play any of them simply because of what the point of the games are.

I'm sure there have been numerous theological discussions on the subject, but I have to wonder how God views simulated sin. Didn't Jesus say that thinking lustful thoughts is equal to adultry, and hating your brother is equal to murder. The point is that sin is born in the heart and mind. Every so often I have to step back and reevaluate the games I play. I love all kinds of games, but sometimes I wonder if the only games that are alright to play are puzzle and sports games.

I honestly don't know why I rambeled all of that. Take from it what you want.

 

[[toj.cc]phantom]

the hot coffee mod unlocks a secret sex mini game for the pc version. There are action replay codes and ingame codes that unlock it for the ps2 version aswell.

There are no ingame codes that unlock this, otherwise it would have been discovered sooner. I own the game on PC and when I saw the mod for the first time on the internet (before all the news and stuff). Even then I knew I would never get the mod, so what the code is in the game, I don't have it activated on mine. I also know of games with nudity patches and stuff and people aren't freaking out about that. Just don't download the mod (like me) and oyu won't have to worry about it.

 

[MeridianFlight]

What's interesting is how Rockstar handled the situation in the first place. It looked like they tried to paint the "Hot Coffee mod" as content created by hackers initially, but the "mod" exists on the PS2 and Xbox versions.

There's a couple of different ways this could have played out. Rockstar could have been sloppy and/or lazy, deciding not to remove the sex minigame, figuring or hoping that no one would stumble upon it. What are the odds of that when publishing a game for use on the PC?

The other apparent way this happened is Rockstar left the sex minigame in the code so it could be discovered by hackers, generating controversy and therefore publicity for the game. Seeing as the Grand Theft Auto series is one of the most popular game franchises out there, this makes little sense. Why provide the catalyst for a potentially devestating firestorm just to garner attention for game when its already one of the most popular franchises on the market?

It'll be interesting to see what politicians attempt to do with this development.

 

[MeridianFlight]

There are no ingame codes that unlock this, otherwise it would have been discovered sooner. I own the game on PC and when I saw the mod for the first time on the internet (before all the news and stuff). Even then I knew I would never get the mod, so what the code is in the game, I don't have it activated on mine. I also know of games with nudity patches and stuff and people aren't freaking out about that. Just don't download the mod (like me) and oyu won't have to worry about it.

If you could unlock the code through the game and without the assistance of modifications, then Rockstar would have been really screwed. Rockstar put the content on there, but they locked it out, or left it inaccessible using the game alone. The mods for PC and the videogame consoles unlock it.

 

[Pelagrin]

The other apparent way this happened is Rockstar left the sex minigame in the code so it could be discovered by hackers, generating controversy and therefore publicity for the game. Seeing as the Grand Theft Auto series is one of the most popular game franchises out there, this makes little sense. Why provide the catalyst for a potentially devestating firestorm just to garner attention for game when its already one of the most popular franchises on the market?

It makes perfect sense for them to leave it in intentionally to spark controversy. Controversy = free publicity. Games like Mortal Kombat and GTA gained a huge initial following by being controversial. Another example would be Paris Hilton and The Simple Life. It seemed a little too convienient that Paris' home movie leaked right when The Simple Life was kicking off it's first season.

 

[B-man]

There are no ingame codes that unlock this, otherwise it would have been discovered sooner. I own the game on PC and when I saw the mod for the first time on the internet (before all the news and stuff). Even then I knew I would never get the mod, so what the code is in the game, I don't have it activated on mine. I also know of games with nudity patches and stuff and people aren't freaking out about that. Just don't download the mod (like me) and oyu won't have to worry about it.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/15/news_6129301.html

like i said, there are codes to unlock it for the ps2 version.

they used both external and internal codes to get it....sure you dont need to use the ingame code(s) but it makes it easier to unlock the minigame

 

[MeridianFlight]

It makes perfect sense for them to leave it in intentionally to spark controversy. Controversy = free publicity. Games like Mortal Kombat and GTA gained a huge initial following by being controversial. Another example would be Paris Hilton and The Simple Life. It seemed a little too convienient that Paris' home movie leaked right when The Simple Life was kicking off it's first season.

I disagree. The game already enjoys enormous popularity. The GTA series owns three of the top five spots of the top selling Sony Playstation 2 games of all time. Leaving the minigame in there only brings about the kind of controversy that can cause serious damage. Rockstar enjoys enormous sales numbers with the GTA series, why risk it? Earlier speculation had one possible response from the ESRB involving a recall of all the San Andreas copies. That would have cost Rockstar an insane amount of money. This was a ridiculous move on Rockstar's part (what are the odds they just forgot about the code?), and could have severe rammifications for the gaming industry.

 

[Killerah]

I almost laughed when I read that, how could Take Two be so stupid to leave something like that buried in there? I doubt it would have been all that hard to delete that stuff. Anyway, there go alot of their sales with that AO rating.

 

[l33tben]

I almost laughed when I read that, how could Take Two be so stupid to leave something like that buried in there? I doubt it would have been all that hard to delete that stuff. Anyway, there go alot of their sales with that AO rating.

Same...GTA ever since it has gone next gen has gone straight to heck.

 

[Pelagrin]

I disagree. The game already enjoys enormous popularity. The GTA series owns three of the top five spots of the top selling Sony Playstation 2 games of all time. Leaving the minigame in there only brings about the kind of controversy that can cause serious damage. Rockstar enjoys enormous sales numbers with the GTA series, why risk it? Earlier speculation had one possible response from the ESRB involving a recall of all the San Andreas copies. That would have cost Rockstar an insane amount of money. This was a ridiculous move on Rockstar's part (what are the odds they just forgot about the code?), and could have severe rammifications for the gaming industry.

I wasn't saying that I thought it was a smart decision. I just think that it is plausible. As I said before, controversy gives huge free publicity. I think that GTA's initial popularity was partially due to all the controversy surrounding it. I know that movie, television, and game companies intentionally try to push the envelope on content to try to drive the ratings to the next level. I wouldn't be surprised if Rockstar included the locked content to spark controversy in order to gain publicity and/or to try to push the envelope on accepted content. People being upset over hard core porn in a game may cause them to forget the fact that players are rewarded for all of the other negative content. The reason that I think that publicity is plausible is because legal ramifications my cost them millions, but they can make that up in sales.

One thought I just had is using Mortal Kombat as an example. When the game came out initially it was very controversial and extremely popular. Now people have pretty much forgotten about it because it isn't any more controversial than most of the other games. It doesn't get the same media attention that it used to, so the games aren't anywhere near as popular as they used to be. With GTA, keeping the name in the spotlight will continue to keep a focus on that title. If someone doesn't already own the game, they may want to go pick it up to see what people are talking about.

Honestly I'm just throwing out thoughts. I won't pretend to know the reasons why people do the things they do. I just think that the controversial angle is plausible. Either way I don't have any plans to play any of the GTA games.

 

[Gandhi]

First off there is no such thing as bad publicity. All games have secrets hidden in the game for the player to find.
If Rockstar knew about it or didn't, they added something to the game for the players. And really a 17+ rating to a Adults 18+ rating, is it such a big deal. Most 17 year olds already know where to dl porn, is simulated sex going to get them all excited.

I'm sure there have been numerous theological discussions on the subject, but I have to wonder how God views simulated sin. Didn't Jesus say that thinking lustful thoughts is equal to adultry, and hating your brother is equal to murder. The point is that sin is born in the heart and mind.

If u havn't had a lustful thought about someone I'd say your lieing, its normal. And simulated violence isn't equal to murder u should know this u play halo 2.

 

[James]

I honestly don't know why I rambeled all of that.

The Holy Spirit can use anyone anywhere to get His point across.

If u havn't had a lustful thought about someone I'd say your lieing, its normal. And simulated violence isn't equal to murder u should know this u play halo 2

It isn't normal to go around having lustful thoughts about people. It may be common in our degenerate society, but normal? I think not. People need to control their lusts before their lusts control them.

And correct me if I am wrong on this, but Halo actually has a point to the violence; you're trying to stop some evil somewhere. But GTA is just mindless violence and destruction from everything I have seen and heard about it. That's a big difference.

 

[Pelagrin]

If u havn't had a lustful thought about someone I'd say your lieing, its normal. And simulated violence isn't equal to murder u should know this u play halo 2.

I didn't say that I have never had thoughts like that. Thoughts like that are still sinful though. I, just like everyone else, am a sinner. I'm not perfect and I know that I'm not perfect. I'm also not going to begin to try to defend Halo 2. It's a fun game, but it does contain swearing, gore, and killing and it also carrys a mature rating.

Why isn't simulated killing a sin? Would you consider simulated sex a sin?

 

[Gandhi]

Y would sex be considered a sin?
Killing in a game is different than killing in real life. Its a game, its not real, don't u get this question atleast once a day on the cs server.

 

[Tek7 (Legacy)]

Y would sex be considered a sin?
Killing in a game is different than killing in real life. Its a game, its not real, don't u get this question atleast once a day on the cs server.

I thought it would take fewer than 20 posts to make this thread a candidate for a move to Religious Discussion, but I expected it eventually.

I'll leave the thread in General Discussion for now and keep an eye on it. If I feel it's appropriate to move the thread to RD, I will do so.

 

[Allanon]

My two cents as a dad of 5 boys (and 3 girls) plus as an avid gamer. I am very pleased to see this game get an AO rating. The very fact that they put this kind of content on the cds for three different platforms tells me they had a reason, it wasn't by accident. In the end, I don't care what the reason is, the fact remains, it is wrong. Please do not allow yourself to get catch up on "its only pixel's" "its not real nudity or hard porn". The fact is (if you are honest with yourself) this kind of content will cause you to be tempted ...

James 1:14-16 (New International Version)

14but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16Don't be deceived, my dear brothers.

I leave that with you.