DKP changes inc.

Angryson

Angryson

New Member
Yes. After much thought on the current system we have been using, there are inherent problems in it that I can no longer ignore. I have been, and am continuing to work on getting a revised/new system in place. I have some free time this weekend so hopefully I can implement this in the next raid lockout period or two. Everyone's input has been helpful and informational. Special thanks to Avesther and Proudfoot for their continued insights on the current system and other available options. I will keep you all updated as things fall into place regarding which system we will be adapting.

Please keep in mind that there is no perfect system. I am doing my best to find what works best for our Raiding style from both the casual and committed raiders perspective.

Current systems being examined:

Current system in place: reverting back to old values to reduce inflation. i.e. dkp rewards for bosses back to 1 for both 10 and 25 man. Revert to original dkp cost for items adjusted to current iLevel (in progress).

Suicide Kings: *Strength* Strongly discourages dkp hording since any item reduces a player to 0 dkp. Also some variations on this method regarding lesser upgrades, trophies, etc reducing dkp in half...

Zero-Sum: Looking at placing much higher dkp cost/rewards to give the system more "wiggle-room". Also allows the reward of minor dkp awards for non-raid related actions i.e. helping new 80's gear out in heroics, giving Angryson gold, etc.

Stand-by dkp: This will make its way into whatever system regardless. 2 options currently available are time-based and boss-kill based reward. In both scenarios, dkp is only awarded if the player(s) on the waitlist are present in-game and are readily available.

Thank you all for your thoughts and patience as we try to make our raid environment even better! You all rock and there's no way I'd be able to do this if you weren't all completely awesome.

Derek
 
Thanks again Angry/Fierce for giving of yourself in this way. It may not seem like it most of the time, but we love you and thank you for leading us.



PS....Gold is in the mail....:D
 
I've been in hardcore raiding guilds that used all of those DKP styles... I liked the Standy-by DKP but I hated Suicide Kings... I always got so confused lol. I loved Zero-sum DKP though, although would items be open for bid?
 
First of all, thank you McFierce for leading our raids. You and Samboe have been really great at keeping us focused and committing the time to be at each raid.
also, it's refreshing to have a democratic leader who listens to suggestions.

Xaveor said:
I've been in hardcore raiding guilds that used all of those DKP styles... I liked the Standy-by DKP but I hated Suicide Kings... I always got so confused lol. I loved Zero-sum DKP though, although would items be open for bid?
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Zero-sum is a good system but really works best with a very static group of raiders. Every time someone leaves the raiding core you have to decide if you want to distribute their points between everyone else or just lose those points (deflation). It sounds like our dkp site only works in whole numbers though so the only way to make that work would be to use much higher values, like multiply everything by 100 but that's kind of silly IMO. Zero sum is a good option though so don't think I'm bashing it.

Using a bidding system can be good but it can also have problems.

Good: I think the intent of a bidding system is for the GREAT items to receive much higher bids than the middle of the road items. People who play a particular class know what items are truly extraordinary and will bid much more dkp to be the first to receive it. It also lets people who are late to the game/alts pick up "left overs" for much less than the superexcitedwowzaFIRST!! guy.

Bad: In Molten Core in my first guild we had a bidding system for all items but it was soon very apparent that the mages had made their own set of rules for their set pieces. They had made a list of who was next to get gear and he would only bid 1 dkp and win the item. This left them more DKP when it came to "cross-class" items like rings and weapons and they could bid much higher than anyone else. It wasn't fair to everyone else so we dropped bidding and went to flat prices for everything, with higher prices for highly coveted items.
 
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I liked the open bid because everytime a hunter piece would drop we would talk to eachother and let eachother have the item so we always spent the least amount of DKP lol.
 
Proudfoot said:
Using a bidding system can be good but it can also have problems.

Good: I think the intent of a bidding system is for the GREAT items to receive much higher bids than the middle of the road items. People who play a particular class know what items are truly extraordinary and will bid much more dkp to be the first to receive it. It also lets people who are late to the game/alts pick up "left overs" for much less than the superexcitedwowzaFIRST!! guy.

Bad: In Molten Core in my first guild we had a bidding system for all items but it was soon very apparent that the mages had made their own set of rules for their set pieces. They had made a list of who was next to get gear and he would only bid 1 dkp and win the item. This left them more DKP when it came to "cross-class" items like rings and weapons and they could bid much higher than anyone else. It wasn't fair to everyone else so we dropped bidding and went to flat prices for everything, with higher prices for highly coveted items.
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<Creeps in...>

When I raided in the distant past the guild I ran with used a Zero-sum bidding system (minimum bid was usually 40 DKP). DKP that was spent (via secret /tell bids to the raid leader) was divided up among the raiders in the raid and people in standby got a certain % of that.

If people purposefully bid low on items they were accused with collusion and were banned from raiding for an established amount of time. Every one hated collusion because it limited the DKP people got. It was very rare in HK.

At first I did not like DKP, but I soon realized that if it's utilized properly it is very fair.

<Creeps out.>
 
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Closed bid system with a minimum bid requirement.
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I've never used a bidding system for dkp before so from what I've read around here you just whisper the raid leader, or whoever will be handing out the loot, how much dkp you'd like to bid and the highest bidder gets it. I would like to know if it's a one shot deal to put in the highest dkp to win it or if you are able to try and outbid the person who put in the highest bid?
 
Azami said:
I would like to know if it's a one shot deal to put in the highest dkp to win it or if you are able to try and outbid the person who put in the highest bid?
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That depends on if you do open bidding (in raid chat) or if you do the whisper system. Open bidding allows for counter bids like an auction, closed bidding is a one shot deal.
 
DKP is such an outdated acronym. Dragon Kill Points? That doesn't seem to apply to all bosses.

How about AKP or Awesome Kill Points?


*runs back under rock*
 
Perhaps this is a completely optimistic view from the outside looking in, as I've not yet done a DKP raid with redeemed yet. That said I've done several pug guild raids and out of guild raids, and I must say the overall atmosphere on this server is much more friendly and helpful than the previous.

Are there hurt feelings with an open bid system where everyone sees? Lets say a super dagger drops, and I want it. Minimum bid is 40 dkp (i'm throwing these numbers out for the sake of argument), but not wanting to lose it and not knowing who else is bidding, I whisper 80dkp. Well I didn't realize that the dagger really wasn't that sweet, or maybe the other dagger wielders have better, so they don't bid at all. I just wasted 40dkp, and I'm a sad gnome.

I could definitely see though, how an open bidding system would lend to it taking 30 minutes of banter after each boss, so maybe that's what we're trying to avoid?

Perhaps a contingency for the closed bid system would be that your final DKP cost would be 1 more than the next highest bidder? I.e. I bid 80 dkp because I really want it, next highest bidder only bids 40dkp, so I am charged 41 dkp?

<shrug>
 
Well I didn't realize that the dagger really wasn't that sweet
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This is something you would want to figure out before you bid.

As for the bid amounts, know the points of fellow guildies who might be bidding on the item and determine what it's worth to you. the beauty of it is even if you don't have the most points you could still potentially successfully bid an item.
 
Bidding makes handing out loot more of a game of chance (so a totally different game inside a game). I would suggest a closed bidding with minimum bids and only one bid. Reasons being because only one person knows the bids so less chance of hard feelings and a little less intimidating especially for people new to the system. If the ML wants and item he just picks an officer or other designated person to receive the bids instead of himself. You can still do main set before offset. It kinda fun but I found it totally intimidating at first.
 
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