Diablo

(Scratches head)
Huh? Games...are....vain...? No! All this time I've been deceived! Curse you EGM! Curse you PCGamer! A plague on you OPM! How could you have led me astray?!

Okay jokes aside. Yeah. Games are for fun....we have a Moses game. Moses walks across the desert. Scorpions and puddles and Israelites, oh my. Then we have Eternal War. "Mike" is a "friend" to a "suicidal mind" of "a teen" and you fight "Demons?" I think "Mike" is Michael, Archangel. Knock yourself out fighting for the Lord using attacks like Trinity Blast. The graphics are pretty sweet, too. Very soft, bright colors. I like em.

I don't think God is standing outside the medium that is videogames...I thought He said something like He's everywhere? In all things? I think God's in videogames too, or not unaware of their existence. We can't hide ourselves in videogames and escape from God. He's there, with Diablo or Final Fantasy or Quake or StarCraft. I believe it should be Christians' responsiblity, too, to perhaps make an interesting, fun, addicting, good fun game...that brings about the Christian message. Not: "Click On the Bible Verse." Something like "Take up the spiritual sword and combat the Devil's hordes using the Word of God, faith, etc. in everyday life. Go out of the house to work and enter into a field of combat and everyday demons that must be conquered. Slay the foul Mistresses of Lust and Temptation. Bring down the Succubae Queen. Fight your way through the life of an ordinary man as he transforms from a spiritual peasant to a spiritual warrior in the quest for God!" Sounds pretty cool? Anyone who reads that can take it and make it a videogame. Make sure it's cool, and the graphics are awesome, as are the battle sequences, weapon choices, and make it usable in ministry!

Yeah...God's in videogames all right. He's online, too. Multiplayer, LAN, whatever He wants. He's right beside me, too, watching me type this and knowing whether or not I'm mocking Him.
I just scared myself. Okay hey God.
 
Is the devil allowed ACTUAL hordes? And if he DID have 'em, then why would they obey him? History has shown that fear of punishment is a remarkably poor motivator of troops - far worse than professionalism, pride in self, comradeship, money or patriotism.

And given that you believe the Devil is so succesfull, why don't you try emulating some of his tactics? The minute you say - "God says this is immoral - stop it at once", people brand you as a religious nutcase. The fact that your argument stems from religious conviction makes a third party automatically assume that it has no supporting basis in fact. That's just not the case, normally, so why not focus on the secular reasons for change, and make the world work YOUR way?

Sad to say, so many evils have been committed in the name of good, that EITHER word makes most people antsy these days.

Eon
 
It appears I have been misunderstood. My statement about this forum being an attempt to bring God into this medium of entertainment was not meant to say God is not there. Obviously He is with us in all that we do. My statement merely meant that we are trying to remove some of the vanity by adding an element of christian fellowship.
 
A'ight, a'ight. That's cool then.
Well, understood. I think that's kinda what we try to do, but we also love to argue, umm, "debate" about several unimportant details, "valid opinions." But I understand what you say.

I think that yes, Satan does have hordes and hordes of demons. Actually I don't think it. I know it. The Word says that many of the angels chose to side with this bright morning star, who shall soon be as fallen as the kings of this world.
And who ever said Satan punishes his demons? They're not afraid of punishment: they're sure that they will conquer with their master. Or are they? I have some ideas as to what demons and angels feel and think and believe, but they are not tried and true. Maybe true, but not tried, for sure.
Satan doesn't scare his demons with "You'll burn in hell if you don't listen up and deceive that little boy over there to take a cookie! HEY! You want a thrashing? See this whip? Yeah! Made out of spine! I'll whip it across your mouth so fast, you won't know WHAT hit you!" WHACK WHACK!

Satan is a ruler. A military ruler. He uses deception, stratagems, might, words, people, even God Himself, against God and His works. He is indeed a worthy foe, though he, so well taught in Scriptures, will not admit the prophesied defeat of his that WILL be.

But, Eon, in case you were wondering (and you are right by all counts: "I'll beat you if you don't do as I say" doesn't really work in mobilizing an army) Matthew 12:25 says that a kingdom divided can't stand. Elsewhere it speaks of when a demon is cast out it returns to find everything in order, and leaves and comes back again with seven MORE POWERFUL demons than he, and together they waste the cleaned soul. There is hierarchy of power among the spirits. Angels and demons alike. And they all serve an ultimate master, though demons, I believe, are quite divided. Reading Frank Peretti's novel THIS PRESENT DARKNESS kinda aided that belief, but again, it's pure fiction.

And, uh, who said anything that the devil is successful? I'm not reading that anywhere. I don't...I don't. He is fallen. He's powerful, sure, and will win this entire world over to him, (including you, Eon, unless you die beforehand) all who do not have their faith in Christ. He will kill the Christians. Slaughter 'em. Brutally. He'll have the power to waste anyone who doesn't accept his mark of economy-allowance (which entails life limited).
Oh yeah. Satan has definite power. But it is all an image in his head of what he will never grasp: true power. The power that is God's. He will never be able to match it. With the removable of ONE Word, God will wipe out the entire universe. One word is all. And it takes us months to relay a message that we're going to war with Iraq? Dang. I look forward to what happens when God writes persuasive essays.

Dude. At some point a Christian from dawn till dusk will say that God hates something (with basis or no) and try to get it abolished forever. Then the ears of the world are shut to them.
Christians have got to be heard without making themselves heard. They must fit in with the crowd. Do as the Romans do. Do as Paul did. He was a Jew to the Jews, and a Gentile to the Gentiles. He said so. Why is it so hard for the pansies that say they're warriors for Christ to do the same? To say that "I stand for the God called Christ?" Is it so difficult?
Obviously so.
The world won't work my way, Eon. I can weasel with it, fight with it, even stand against it. But it won't be my friend. It's just not so. Sad to say.
However, I won't be the one on the podium shouting: "Safe sex is of the Devil!" Promiscuity of any sort is not what God wants nor desires nor commands...it is of Satan, sure. But will anyone listen to me then? Nope. I've got to meet them on their own ground. MTV "seems" to suck: "Go to mtv.com to get 'the facts' about sex, music, drugs, celebrities...all the important stuff."
Now that doesn't mean I go about condoning extramarital sex of any sort. However, I cannot stand about and condemn the pracitioners. They WON'T LISTEN.
 
Sry i just havent read the full topic yet but ultima why are you bashing D2 when you play EQ and i quote in in this "Magic Rocks"

From the last page of Magic in Games. Topic
 
I'm just saying, is all, that the Devils strategems, according to you guys, seem to revolve around him not SAYING that he's the Devil. If I read you guys right, you think he gets people like ME doing his will by staying hidden, pretending to be good rather than evil, and by subtly ensuring that his will is done. And bear in mind, that if we compare the number of people in heaven and the number of people in hell... Well, all I'm saying is that the Devil has the numbers, you know?

Now if only you Christians did the same thing. Did something good because it was "cool" - or found ways you could be both! Make some good films that promulgate your values WITHOUT being about some guy called Jesus - because we all think we KNOW that story already, and we've rejected it because we found it to be incompatible with our values, beliefs and experiences. Now if more of our values, beliefs and experiences supported it - we'd be more likely to become Christians, wouldn't we?

Just think about it, that's all I'm saying.

Eon
 
movies like that exist..have you seen The Green Mile? a prisoner John Coffee (J C) who dies for someone elses sin even though he's innocent??
 
Good point CCGR. John Eldredge came to our church and mentioned how people HUNGER for the story of Jesus to be true. We see it all over the cinema where one person saves the many. He showed us scenes from Gladiator (which I have never seen). But there are movies like, Braveheart, sorta The Matrix (the original) and many, many more. I'm probably not even CLOSE to the impact his statement made, but you get the idea.
 
EQ...? I NEVER said I played Everquest. I didn't bash Diablo either...just said it was really pathetic in parts and really awesome in others, like the spellcasting and weapons and enemies and parts of story, is all.

Except, CCGR that movie wasn't based by Christians...it's based on a work by Stephen King, who's about the furthest you can get FROM Christianity in writing, though he is without a doubt awesome in literature.

Ohhhhh. I hear you Eon. That really does make sense...to a certain extent.
Satan is our current epitome of all that is bad, sinful, unrighteous and loathful. BUT he masks this by appealing to our natures in a subtle manner that chips away at our senses until we don't feel the sin anymore and "it's not that bad" or "it's not bad at all!" Therefore, Evil=Good, which is exactly what Revelation tell us: men will call good evil and evil good. And look at what God is in this world: a tyrant, a liar, a fiend, a murdering madman, a diablic cretin, worthless and dead.
SO what you're saying is Christians should approach your baser nature and make good LOOK cool. Kinda like calling Jesus a hacker named Mr. Anderson, or Neo, for short. Then we'll put all the sinners in some dreamworld controlled by programs, but in reality they're mechanical slaves to a machine globe. Then Jesus, er, Neo goes on a quest to save the world from Satan, er, the Matrix.
A bit o' cursing, some sex, a tad of brutality...a bit of warping on the nature of God and Christ, a bit of nihilism...but in the end, you get a "cool" picture of Christ! Therefore, good="only slightly" evil.

Then after the theatre showing was over of The Life of Christ, err, The Matrix, we could hand out tracts to people telling them of all the representation in them or whatnot. Neo=Jesus, Trinity=God's love interest, Morpheus=Jesus' tutor...what? You see? It doesn't work that well.
You take a Christian flick that's all about Jesus and his teachings and whatnot, and it's usually well-done and well-produced. But no one wants to hear about it, as you admitted, because they hate God.
It just doesn't work. The ears will never hear God, one way or the other. Also, you can't deceive people on God's nature. "Yeah, once, my God, Jesus, he walked into the temple, like sacred place, dude, and then he took a whip and beat the crap out of some guys selling stuff in it, because it was like, unholy or something like that. And then Neo, he just waltzed in with his chick, and shot up that place pretty good. That's like, the temple, man. You see how it works? Yeah God really is a mighty God."
NO.
 
UA: I've read quite a few Stephen King books in the past...

One thing I've noticed: If satanism is dabbled with, the 'dabbler' often gets nailed by what he dabbles with in the end (that one short story in Night Shift is about this.)

Yes, he can get pretty far from Christian values, but the farthest? I've read much worse, where blasphemy, satanism, etc. is blatant.

Yes, King writes about demons, vampires, "worms," rats, and monsters in general (I've cooked up some theories about his works), but does he portray them positively? does he revere them? I don't think so. The Stand, It, and Salem's Lot all come to mind (even though those books aren't the best ones out there for Christians).

(This post, in no way, supports that King is a Christian, or that he supports Christian values. This post is only my personal observations).
 
I kinda have to agree with Pieman.  Yes King writes horror, yet the good guys (or at least the protaginist, becuase the concept of Carrie as a good guy, even though she is the sympathetic character, is a hard sell.  She is more akin to a modern anti-hero ) wins in the end, and numerous of them can even be used quite nicely to teach Christian mores

examples:

The Stand-- Self-sacrifice for the greater good, serving a power you don't understand.  serving in faith.
Salem's Lot-- To fall to hypocrisy (go read it again, an pay close attention to the clergy)
Needful Things-- self control, resist temptation, and a really good literary paralel to spiritual battles
It -- the power of the group, and innocence.  Standing gaurd against evil.  the power of childlike faith
Christine--Morality tale about letting possesions have control over you


While they should probably be used quite sparingly, and in a SS class that is older, they make interesting reads that can be discussed with the mores brought to the forefront.  Now did King write them for this purpose?  Probably not.  Yet, there are few things that we can't use to teach scripture and scriptural living.
 
I LOVE Stephen King. Through and through. I love his movies too on his books. The Shawshank Redemption, The Green Mile, Misery, The Shining, Hearts in Atlantis, The Dead Zone, Salem's Lot, Cujo, Carrie, It, Needful Things, The Dark Tower Series (The Gunslinger, Of Wizard and Glass, The Drawing of the Three, and another) etc.

My only problem with him is his extensive swearing. I mean, I would have every one of his books if it weren't for the swearing. My parents have something against it and I find that it doesn't usually help out the stories when it's used so lightly and often like King does.

The only problem, Kidan, is that in The Stand nobody wins...it just goes on with the Walkin Dude. No one knew what they were fighting, or for what, but they did, as you said. Fighting for their faith in whatever it was, though they didn't know what it was they believed.
It was horrific enough, but, if you didn't notice, most of that defensive child's group fell prey to It.
I'll give you Needful Things...it was just like that. In fact, that one and Something Wicked This Way Comes (Ray Bradbury) kinda had similiarties: "Go on the carousel...you become young!" but watch out who you listen to, or you'll wind up lost in a maze forever or an ancient, weathered old figure who dies after the carousel is stopped, or frozen in ice. Also Needful Things basically said: cough up your soul and you get whatever is your DESIRE. Desire is a cause for sin in most cases, a catalyst for lust and schism. Needful Things ain't short on that.
And well, Salem's Lot...was different. Granted their church was rather hypocritical, but looked at who they truly served under it all: a vampire? Hmm.

And I suppose, as I said, if you look at anything enough and blind yourself enough to another part of it, you can look at it any way you want...Stephen King had a love affair with the Mistress of Satan. Stephen King lives with his dad...IN HELL!
Or
Stephen King is a marvelous writer (granted, duh) who, though some of his materials are questionable, is an undoubted servant to the Lord....snicker.
Or
Stephen King writes secular books indeed, but there is a message, accidental or purposeful, that can help to support what Christians say in so many ways. Parallels in his literature are akin to the life of a Christian in this modern world.
I suppose it's possible.
 
Flagg, I believe, is King's version of a super-demon. never dies, but can be beaten.

You read the Dark Tower series? If not, read it. THEN read Talisman, Black House, and Atlantis, as well as Eyes of the Dragon. IT can also be in there. You'll notice a fine link between those books, and their conn with the Dark Tower. Quite interesting pieces of literature if you ask me (yes, I do consider King as literature, one of the few popular novelists in my category of literature; Dumas was also a pop novelist).

The Dark Tower is King's backbone storyline. The rest of the novels are just sidetracks from his Dark Tower saga (a few novels are exempted, such as Rage, Christine, and possibly his short stories.
 
Carrie, I don't believe ever had anything to do with the Dark Tower.

BUT I think the main link between the Dark Tower and the others is simply this: Castle Rock.
 
Uhh.....no. Not last I checked.
But then again, Satanists don't brand themselves in public: "I am a Satanist." They are a dangerous cult, as dangerous as the Masons and as the Mormons and the Jehovah's Witnesses.

No. His works are dark, MAYBE Satanic, but he is hardly a Satanist.
 
I always thought Satanists were kind of amusing really - hard to look at La Veys lot and see them as anything but a load of self-indulgents.

Still the thing about focussing all that energy on the self - it means you don't wreck other peoples lives all that much, just your own. ;)

Eon
 
Except a lot of Satanist ritual involves others, and not just the self, and they are indeed one of the most self-indulgent cults out there (next to Mormonism I think. That and Buddhism.).
 
Buddhism is self-indulgent? How can a contemplation of the infinite be considered self-indulgent or selfish?

Buddhism teaches that karma is the most important trait, more important than material possessions or earthly pleasure. Most of the REAL ascetics were Zen Buddhists!

Eon
 
Woops, I have to jump in here...haven't read the rest of the thread, but it's irrelevant ;D Why, Ultima, do you view the Masons as a dangerous sect? Mormons and Jehova Witnesses are of themselves religions - Masonry is not; rather, it is an organization. They claim to be Christian - are most of them? Probably not. My grandfather is a mason, and he's not (yet
smile.gif
). However, that does not make them dangerous. As far as I know, since they are not mainly a religious group, they lack any dangerous doctrine. Furthermore, they contribute to their communities and perform charity. While hostility towards Masons is not new (there was once an Anti-Masonic political party), it usually stems from insecurity resulting from their secrecy. What goes on behind their closed doors? Nothing monumental, I can assure you, without ever having attended a meeting myself.

Anyways, just thought I'd interject that - perhaps you can support your claim ;D Take it easy Ultima my freind.
 
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