Complaint.

L

Lufia

New Member
I will probably try to talk to an officer about this, but I don't see how it's fair for Raid leaders to wait 10 minutes past 6:30 on Friday for certain people to arrive for the raid and yet today I needed 3 minutes to finish the BRD daily and my spot gets filled. So at 6:31 I am passed up for a spot.

Which goes to my second complaint, if I did get passed up otherwise. I was there on Friday and I think saved people should have a priority. I even said in Guild chat I just needed a few minutes to finish the quest. Sure I might not be a "Raider" but I think people should be a little more considerate, because I still re-arrange my schedule when I am online for raid nights to try and be there anyways.
 
i'm probably out of my bounds here ,but I would suggest not to start groups/quests before 6:15 which is the official invite time. easy as that. finish your quest/group later.
 
Best to talk to a raid leader and probably best that this thread get moved to the admins forums before emotions get involved.
 
Emotions can get involved if that's how you wanna play it. I noticed 5 non raiders in the raid tonight a couple of which I know were there Friday. I still don't see how a "title" should give precedence over someone who was actually there. If you weren't there to show up Friday and I was I don't think your "Title" should be an auto-invite. Plainly if you are a Raider shouldn't there be certain expectations anyways? Shouldn't you have been there on Friday in the first place? Otherwise it just feels like they're playing favorites.

Don't get me wrong if there aren't any and it's a casual thing maybe the Raider category should just be removed completely. Just doesn't seem fair I was there Friday and I get passed up but it's OK to wait 10 minutes for a certain person to be there when I ask for just a few minutes on Monday night yet get passed over.

To Lloren, I don't usually plan group quests around raid time, I just WL ADDed at 6:01 and had a group to run through the BRD brewfest daily but one of the members disconnected. Contrary to what some people would do I didn't want to bail on the group simply because of that, I mentioned in guild chat and proceeded to finish the Coren fights since I was already there. Unfortunately it took longer than I had expected. I had given notice and it was only one minute past the call-time anyways which is 9 minutes less than we waiting on Friday for some people.
 
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Lufia said:
Emotions can get involved if that's how you wanna play it. I noticed 5 non raiders in the raid tonight a couple of which I know were there Friday. I still don't see how a "title" should give precedence over someone who was actually there. If you weren't there to show up Friday and I was I don't think your "Title" should be an auto-invite. Plainly if you are a Raider shouldn't there be certain expectations anyways? Shouldn't you have been there on Friday in the first place? Otherwise it just feels like they're playing favorites.

Don't get me wrong if there aren't any and it's a casual thing maybe the Raider category should just be removed completely. Just doesn't seem fair I was there Friday and I get passed up but it's OK to wait 10 minutes for a certain person to be there when I ask for just a few minutes on Monday night yet get passed over.

To Lloren, I don't usually plan group quests around raid time, I just WL ADDed at 6:01 and had a group to run through the BRD brewfest daily but one of the members disconnected. Contrary to what some people would do I didn't want to bail on the group simply because of that, I mentioned in guild chat and proceeded to finish the Coren fights since I was already there. Unfortunately it took longer than I had expected.
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This really needs to be taken up with the people in authority before it is bogged down in emotions where both sides of the conflict can not hear what the otherside is saying.
 
Agreed, I think you have every right to express your thoughts and concerns about how you feel, but I would ask that this be taken up with the officers/raid leaders and not be posted here on the open forums...
 
Well that was the intention of posting in the first place, this is the raid section and I have a concern/complaint. If that's how you feel just wait until someone addresses it. Stating the obvious doesn't help any and just seems emo. Nothing I have said is biased, I am just questioning the "clique" that seems to be present. I know I'm not in the "club" but I try to contribute and be available to the guild whenever I can.

Well alright, what are the forums for then? It's a raid post in the raid section, I had a concern and expressed myself. I apologize if that's considered offensive, I didn't figure it would be polite to try and address this while people were in the middle of the raid but OK you expect me to waste more of my time waiting until it is again convenient for them to address? Phew. I had mentioned it in my class channel but as I said they were in the middle of the raid and didn't respond much.
 
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What is supposed to happen is 6pm server, WL ADDs start. 6:15 invites go out. 6:30 we are buffing in the instance and getting ready to go. It is extremely frustrating as a raid leader to see people in groups or not on their main characters ready to go when the raid starts. To be brutally honest, I would have not taken you either if my invites went ignored and there are others willing to fill the spot.

As far as last Friday, it took longer then usual to get enough to raid or we would have tried to start by 6:30 too.

If there is a clique then as a Raid Leader and officer I am not in it. I was an hour late a couple of weeks ago and I did not raid that night. So I sat around doing dailies until my time ran up 2 hours later but I waited it out anyways just incase I was needed.
 
I understand that Sandric, but of course you have to admit that Friday was not the only time things have started late and an hour late is quite a bit different than a minute or two late. Like I said I also messaged in guild chat before hand, if other "people" can be 10 minutes late to raid and still be taken in why am I tossed aside when I said all I needed was a couple minutes, that's what I'm questioning.

Yes I have read over the policy when I became more active on the server again, and signed up on the forums. But does that mean I can't voice my opinion? I hadn't realized this was a dictatorship. Just forget it, it's not worth this much trouble. There's talk of inclusion and getting people up to par with the old core "Raiders" but it seems like people just use inclusion as an excuse to make their own voice more substantial to fill the ranks with more passive players. Just like politics. Ew.
 
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Please somebody correct me if I am wrong but I think the only person Ugsneak was waiting on was Docnut.
 
Avesther, upon re-reading the policy again I want to reiterate I am not complaining because I wanted "phat loots" or because I'm trying to be an elitist. I am happy for whatever progress or digression that took place. I enjoy the guild and enjoy raiding for the simple fellowship of being accompanied by good people. As well as I think it is a good influence God has given to me in my life right now. I have been on many servers and been in guilds that don't hold a candle to the great people in Redeemed. Like I said and will say again after re-reading the policy. There really isn't a mention of priority or consideration, and I think maybe there should be. Just because you are a Raider and show up that's great you've earned your title, but that's also a responsibility or why else would it be there. If a Raider is no present when they should be I don't think that should give them priority on a follow-up Raid over someone else who was there already, and with that I am done, I have enough stresses in my life right now I don't need to make forum trolling to argue my point one of them. I apologize and will drop it.
 
I believe Angry and one other who was driving home? Or something were the last few to join well past 6:30, they had stated they would be there and so the raid waited. Don't hold me to it I don't remember but I am for sure there were 2 people we had been waiting on.
 
I would rather you talk to Ugsneak about it so that he can answer your questions. I don't want you to think that your concerns are not important to the leadership because I beleive that they are.

I've been in this guild since day 1. I was even guild leader for some time, then raid leader, then just member now class leader. And in all that time, I've learned that a public forum is good to address some concerns and some need to be addressed privatly.

I believe I am quite right in my prediction that this thread can cause division in the guild and cause people to harbour ill-will towards those of differing opinions. I don't believe for a minute this would be an outcome you so desired. And hardly on these forums, is the outcome of a discussion gone in the direction we had hoped. Using my years of experience, I am assuming you are looking for the reason why you were passed over. And quite honestly, that is not for the guild to interpret or to discuss. That is something that should be and still ought to be discussed between you and Ugsneak. So that you can gain and understanding of why you were and that he can gain an understanding of why you are upset. What ever solution that comes into place between you and him should also stay between you and him so that in the future, should this happen again with somebody else, that person and who ever the raid leader is can come to the table clear of any expectations based on the past other then : when you have an issue with a raid leader, you go and have a discussioin with the raid leader to work it out.

It is entirely possible that he would come back to the guild leadership and say "Hey, this system is broken here or there." But that would be pure speculation on my part.

Is it ok to discuss issue? Yes I think it is. Unfortunatly, I see time and time again, emotions of everybody participating in the discussioin gets in peoples way and things go to weird tangents and before long, division start. Even on those topics that are started with nothing but the best intentions. I'm sorry it happens that way, and I can't fully explain why it does. I can only say, that it does.
 
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By your own omission, were you online and ready to go when raid invites started? The answer is no. It is black and white to me as a raid leader, find someone that is ready to go.

As far as Friday or any other day that we start late, that is the nature of a casual guild that raids. I don't think it is fair at all to the other 24 people raiding, especially our East Coast guildies, to start late if it can be avoided. I learned really quickly during my first Gruul raid the pain of not being on everyone and pushing to move things along. It is very similar to herding cattle. If given the opportunity everyone would either sit around, snort in disgust or would randomly run off. So you have to crack that whip to get things moving in an orderly fashion. Getting 25 people to coordinate over a virtual medium is not an easy task.

There are ingame requirements for the various instances and bosses that have to be met to even consider them. Short a tank, better luck next week. Only got 4 healers, sorry about your luck. Not enough dps, ouch those enrages hurt. I am telling your right now that you will continue to see our casual raids depend on certain classes and roles to be online and available to raid before we can attempt a raid including having the appropriate number of raid leaders and officers to ensure a successful raid.

As far as priority invites based on being saved, that already happens today most notably with Kara raids. But that is not the issue today.
 
As the individual who was driving home for the raid last Friday, it was my understanding that the raid was short on people at the time, so I was hurrying as quick as I could. I was told that we didn't have enough people, so the raid waited for me to get home, because otherwise it would have been canceled. So instead of canceling the raid completly and everyone not get to raid at all, instead things were held off for a few minutes for me so everyone could raid. I know of a couple of incididents in past raids where we were short 1 person, and things were held off for a few minutes while they got home/got online, etc. I think its perfectly acceptable to wait a couple extra minutes in cases like that, when the raid leader knows that the person will be online within a short amount of time, i.e. 5-10 minutes instead of cancelling the entire thing.
 
For the record there are no more priority invites for kara raids as per my notice in the raid schedule forums about kara changes.

As for the other issues Lufia, the only "club" in the raid is the Redeemed one. Please I invite you to talk to Ugsneak, or one of the other raid leaders/guild leaders about what happened either in PM or ingame and sort this out. It is NEVER the intention to alienate people due to raids and I do hope that this can be resolved. Keep in mind that even raid leaders can make mistakes.....welll maybe not me...I've heard others do it :p
 
ditto on what Goblit said.

If you are wanting to raid, just don't be grouped doing something else. You know what day we raid, you know what time we raid so be ready. Even if you are on the WL and seriously want to go, be ready to go on a moments notice or remove yourself from the WL. Those ready will go first.

Its very difficult to organize these raids, and remember who is who and who is doing what until what time, etc.,etc. Sometimes we do have to wait for a late player if that particular class is needed, especially our tanks and healers, but it is not the optimal situation for all involved. Be early, and be prepared and you'll gain the respect of raid leaders! We have some really great raid leaders who are not paid, who volunteer their time to learn these bosses, and to lead. If you run into a problem, just talk to them first chance you get, don't jump to conclusions. And, thank them occasionally for their efforts, it is, at times, a thankless job.

Lecture over.......
 
This is the same stuff complaints when things don't go as we think they should. It lead to the split of 10th mountain raiders, verndari, and I think at one time redeemed. I hate to see it happened again. When I was in verndari I was never considered raid eligabele for almost 6 months. So I did as much I could to improve, with the help many in that guild, I eventually got to go to Kara where I learned I had a lot learn and was able to get gear some of which I still have. I came to Redeemed because of the Christian mission statement and have never regretted it thought I may have stepped back at this time as as a progression raider. But would always do it again. All of us want to raid and sometimes a I found out we r not ready until we can work, play and pray together at all times. We are looking at a breakdown.
Being a raid leader is difficult and I would hate to see 40man raids again.
 
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Lufia said:
I understand that Sandric, but of course you have to admit that Friday was not the only time things have started late and an hour late is quite a bit different than a minute or two late. Like I said I also messaged in guild chat before hand, if other "people" can be 10 minutes late to raid and still be taken in why am I tossed aside when I said all I needed was a couple minutes, that's what I'm questioning.

Yes I have read over the policy when I became more active on the server again, and signed up on the forums. But does that mean I can't voice my opinion? I hadn't realized this was a dictatorship. Just forget it, it's not worth this much trouble. There's talk of inclusion and getting people up to par with the old core "Raiders" but it seems like people just use inclusion as an excuse to make their own voice more substantial to fill the ranks with more passive players. Just like politics. Ew.
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First of all the dictatorship comment is way out of line.

Second. Just because you are saved to a run does not give you priority. Raiders get priority on runs that we do not have on Farm.

Third The officers and raid leaders will be making sure that this does not happen... If you expect to run a raid then be ready and out of group. Everyone expecting to raid should be free out of group and ready to go by the time invites go out. Rule of thumb is when adds go out thats your Que to drop groups and get ready. Not hard to do, and if that's to much trouble then dont get mad when you are passed up... that is accross the board

There is no clique either. One would think that before you go around throwing comments like dictatorship and cliques you would make sure you had a leg to stand on... Redeemed is the only group and we all belong to it.

Try talking to an officer/raid leader.. If you have let me know who...
 
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