‘Intelligent design’ faces first big court test

[Didasko]

Ever hear of a little thing called LOGIC? Logic is the SCIENCE that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning. That pretty much shoots a hole in your "reasoning".

It makes me chuckle sometimes when you claim victory this way

There was a point in time when it went against Christian beliefs to think the world was anything but flat.

The Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere. Isaiah 40:22

'He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.'

The Hebrew word 'chuwg' translates more literally as 'sphere'.

I choose not to believe in gravity based on faith alone.

Sounds rediculous doesn't it?

It is rediculous. I don't believe in gravity based on faith alone...do you?

How about this one...I choose not to believe in God based on faith alone.

And Allah has made himself known to Muslims.

Buddah has made himself known to Buddhists.

Vishnu has made himself known to Hindus.

Neither of those gods have made themselves known to me.

Thats because they don't exist

If it were THAT cut and dry, why isn't everone a Christian?

Too self centered and blinded by earthly logic.

 

[Master~Plan]

Ouch?

How is that taken out of context?

Why are Christians the only ones able to use stories in the Bible to fit every facet of their life?

this verse came up in another thread where I posted:

heh, no, I was subtly implying that if I tried to correct you on the spirit of this scripture, then that would just leave one down and a million others. If you sincerely want to understand scripture, you have to look at the verses that encapsulate. Paul writes to the church in Thesolanica(sp?) about good and bad, dark and light eg. how we live. Paul wrote a whole letter, and to understand the end, you need to read the beginning. I also use a King James Bible, and a Strongs Concordance.(found the Bible for $1 at the dollar tree, and the Concordance was about $23 because it was last years addition)
I could easily butcher your posts by only reading clips from them. Paul never wrote chapters and verses into his letters. Who knows, maybe your posts will be butchered by some random kid who stumbles across an old hard drive...

Alrite so Paul is telling the church in Thesolaica(sp?) that they need to test moral descisions against God's divine Word. Paul is talking only about our actions, and how we live. Directly before and after the 7 words you quoted, it talks about avoiding evil, and listening to the warnings from the prophets. No matter what the prophets say, it has to be held up to God's word, and no matter what actions they believe to be right, they too must be tested. You use the verse to imply to test God, and that counterdicts the Bible. Looking for God and testing God are 2 different things, and God draws the line at testing Him.
so I guess thats one verse down and a million to go...

 

[ChickenSoup]

Opponents of ID aren't saying that it shouldn't be taught outright. They are saying that ID shoudl be taught as part of the philosophical curriculum and not as science, because it is NOT a sound scientific theory.

Not from a lot of schools perspectives...

That being that the soup that was here was aided by an outside force, i.e. little green men with too much time on there hands.

Hey, I've been here awhile, but not THAT long! Are you insinuating something??

 

[Dark Virtue]

It makes me chuckle sometimes when you claim victory this way

Too bad you can't prove me wrong

The Bible teaches that the earth is a sphere. Isaiah 40:22

'He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers.'

The Hebrew word 'chuwg' translates more literally as 'sphere'.

Would you mind citing your source for this? Using www.blueletterbible.com, chuwg is defined as, "1) circle, circuit, compass, 2) (BDB) vault (of the heavens)" See Strong's 02329.

It is rediculous. I don't believe in gravity based on faith alone...do you?

That was my point.

Yet you believe in God based on faith alone.

Gotcha!

Thats because they don't exist

They are just as real as your God.

Too self centered and blinded by earthly logic.

Remove atheists and nontheists from your equation and answer the question again.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Not from a lot of schools perspectives...

That doesn't make it right.

 

[Didasko]

Too bad you can't prove me wrong

neener neener neener

Is just as good of an argument

That was my point.

Yet you believe in God based on faith alone.

Gotcha!

You got nothin

I don't believe in God based on faith alone. My sins are forgiven based on faith alone, but as I have stated before God has made himself known to me.

They are just as real as your God.

Prove it!

Remove atheists and nontheists from your equation and answer the question again.

Same answer.

 

[Eon]

Actually no, stating that your point has yet to be proven through any logical means is merely an observation, not an insult. And he's right, you've typed a lot here, but you haven't done anything more than make wry comments - you haven't made an argument. At least not one I could find in the last 2 pages.

Did you ever wonder why God made himself aware to you and not to so many others? What is inherently special about Didasko? Doesn't sound to me as if you did anything different to all the athiests, new agers and neo-pagans I've spoken to who got tired of waiting for an answer.

Islam, Judaism and Christianity are so similar that proving one would prove about 80% of the other two. Buddhism is the only one that is falsifiable - because it only requires belief in the existence and goodness of Lord Buddha - and we know he existed. Buddhism doesn't go on to suggest that there is a second, shadowy, figure above Buddha pulling the strings.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Did you ever wonder why God made himself aware to you and not to so many others? What is inherently special about Didasko? Doesn't sound to me as if you did anything different to all the athiests, new agers and neo-pagans I've spoken to who got tired of waiting for an answer.

BINGO!

If God wants ALL men to believe in him, why doesn't he give ALL men the evidence that they need to believe in him?

Of course, that assumes that God wants ALL men to believe in him.

 

[Dark Virtue]

Didasko, would you mind addressing my point on your definition of chuwg? You seem to have glanced over it.

I didn't catch you in an error now did I?

 

[Didasko]

Didasko, would you mind addressing my point on your definition of chuwg? You seem to have glanced over it.

I didn't catch you in an error now did I?

I am looking for where I got that. It was years ago that I read it in 2 or 3 places. When I find it I will look for their sources and get back to you.

 

[Master~Plan]

breather

Just as someone from the outside looking in I don't see a lot of value in this converstion (if you want to call it that...) So just giving a heads up.(Not like I really have any power to do anything, heh)

Did you ever wonder why God made himself aware to you and not to so many others? What is inherently special about Didasko? Doesn't sound to me as if you did anything different to all the athiests, new agers and neo-pagans I've spoken to who got tired of waiting for an answer.

don't get me wrong, I don't want to jump into this mess, but I would like to point out that this is a double edged argument. Someone from the other side could write:
"Did you ever wonder why God didn't made himself aware to you and He did to so many others? What is inherently special about <insert name>? Doesn't sound to me as if you did anything different to all the Christians, Athiest converts I've spoken to got tired of waiting for an explanation to appearant holes."

And don't assume ,Didasko, that I'm standing up for you either, like last time when I put the Bible verse in context. Don't take this the wrong way, but when you use the words: "neener neener neener" and: "You got nothin" ,then you know that debate is getting the best of you. It gets the best of me too.

 

[Wh1te Out]

BINGO!

If God wants ALL men to believe in him, why doesn't he give ALL men the evidence that they need to believe in him?

Of course, that assumes that God wants ALL men to believe in him.

God has made Himself aware to you and everyone else by the sheer existence of this world and us in it. He expects us to believe in Him because He is our creator. All proof does not have to be visual.

 

[Didasko]

Actually no, stating that your point has yet to be proven through any logical means is merely an observation, not an insult. And he's right, you've typed a lot here, but you haven't done anything more than make wry comments - you haven't made an argument. At least not one I could find in the last 2 pages.

Thats because the argument was stated 3 pages back Eon...

And I hope that you realize the 'neener neener neener ' was done hoping to cause a chuckle...

The point does not need to be responded to when you take my previous post in context instead of playing the word game.

Did you ever wonder why God made himself aware to you and not to so many others? What is inherently special about Didasko? Doesn't sound to me as if you did anything different to all the athiests, new agers and neo-pagans I've spoken to who got tired of waiting for an answer.

Sure I wonder. But if you kept up with some of my posts in other recent threads you would know my take on this. The only thing that makes me special is that God through his grace chose to strengthen my faith and make Himself known to me. I didn't do anything to deserve it or earn it.

This is not something you can disprove to me and it is not something I can prove to you so to argue it further is illogical.

Islam, Judaism and Christianity are so similar that proving one would prove about 80% of the other two. Buddhism is the only one that is falsifiable - because it only requires belief in the existence and goodness of Lord Buddha - and we know he existed. Buddhism doesn't go on to suggest that there is a second, shadowy, figure above Buddha pulling the strings.

Yes it would prove much of the other two that are based on the tora (not sure how to spell that). I for one would follow the 100% rather than the 80%. You?

 

[Didasko]

"neener neener neener" and: "You got nothin" .

It seems to me that a lot of people are reading a lot into 'neener neener neener', I guess that being silly and trying to cause a laugh in this case is not working in a typed text.

The 'you got nothin' was a tongue in cheek reply to 'Gotcha!'

I'll try to keep my posts dry and serious from now on so the misunderstandings happen less often.

 

[ChickenSoup]

Too bad you can't prove me wrong

If you believe what the Bible says, then we have, but since you don't you claim victory

 

[Eon]

It seems a new face has joined the fray - which is nice since a new perspective is always valuable.

But it also leads to rehashing some of the old arguments. In this case - the meaning of the word PROOF and PROVE.

Unsupported appeals to authority (The bible) don't prove anything.

 

[Dark Virtue]

God has made Himself aware to you and everyone else by the sheer existence of this world and us in it. He expects us to believe in Him because He is our creator. All proof does not have to be visual.

How, exactly, do you know what God has shown to the hearts and minds of other men?

Since you seem to know that God has shown himself to me, would you mind explaining how and when? Because I seem to have missed that.

Moreover, would you mind explain how God proved himself to you?

 

[Dark Virtue]

If you believe what the Bible says, then we have, but since you don't you claim victory

Correct! I do not believe the Bible, nor do I believe what it says. Why? Because it does not contain proof, evidence or logical reasoning to believe in God.

If it's there, by all means, point it out to me.

Keep in mind what Eon brought up. Are you sure your definition of PROOF coincides with mine?

 

[PapaToad]

back on track, now Kanas Colleges are into the fray

College course seeks to debunk intelligent design

Intersting how each side sets a difference standard!

 

[Eon]

Science IS the process of breaking things down into little, categorisable, pieces and accurately labelling them.

That's what he's doing here - what's the problem?

Intelligent Design as a theory is about as intellectually honest as L. Ron Hubbard's stuff about space aliens wanting your money.