Who's righteous? HIM? Ha!

[Ultima Avatar]

This is going to be a long, cynical post, so bear with me or don't bear at all.

Y'know...I have to wonder about the "righteousness" of people in the Bible, and sometimes the righteousness of actions of God.
A girl got me to questioning that with some interesting arguments.

So there's Adam, and there's Eve, and then there is The LORD. And Eve gets hungry for knowledge, and some being tells her that this fruit here is really tasty, and hey, it's the Divine Fruit, you get to become LIKE GOD. So of course she eats it, knowing full well this is disobedience. So she's cursed to death immediately, and Adam, who's with her, is like, "Huh? Oh, hey, food. Waaait, Eve. Isn't this the no-no tree? It is? Oh well. God, you say? I get to be like God? Mmkay. CHOMP." Death curse. Then God comes around and says, "Yo dudes. What just happened? Where are youuu?" "Uhm. Here. God. Look...uh..." "Why are you hiding?" "(Bursting into tears) I'm naked and ashamed and this WOMAN thing you gave me made me eat so I did and oh God I'm sorry sorry, please don't kill me!" "Woman, what's this?" "Uh...the SNAKE! HE made me eat it." "Uh-huh. Okay, so snake, since you have no alibi, I curse you forever. Just because I don't like snakes. And also woman, I want you to suffer when your pelvis parts for kids, and also to long after your husband. Man, I want you to sweat for your food from now on. Okay, y'all can go now."

So why did God curse the snake without getting the snake's explanation? "It wasssss Sssssatan." "Ah. Satan...what is this you have done?" "Is that a joke?"

Why did God just say, "Okay, because of you, the earth suffers, because I want to make life hard for you, and also, the snake suffers, even though I had to ask YOU to figure out what just happened, but not the snake."

And then when they're done being cursed and Adam finally decides to name his wife right after being kicked out, because, hey, she's the Mother of All, they get to baby-making and out come Abel and Cain, for sure, and I suspect many more kids that weren't mentioned (or else, why would Cain freak out later on that he was going to be instantly killed by his parents?). So it comes time for a sacrifice to God, and Abel gets a fat sheep and Cain gets the stuff he's sweated over: crops. And yet, for some weird reason, God's displeased. Now you'd think with the OT's love for detail, it would go into every single reason why God didn't like Cain's, but liked Abel's. Was it because Abel was younger, sweeter and when not with the sheep was with his parents? Was it because Cain wasn't with his parents and his brother and preferred the fields and isolation?

WHY did God say, "Screw your sacrifice, Cain. I know you worked a lot harder than Abel did to get me a stupid sheep that would walk off a cliff if it could, but I like that kind of blind devotion." So he smiles on Abel but not on Cain, and freaking surprise surprise, Cain gets MAD! WOW! Imagine that. God just dissed your hard work and you're upset! Geez! Didn't see it coming!

Why would God do that? There's no reason for him to have been displeased with Cain's sacrifice, unless it was because he cursed the earth specifically, and not just the animals. Then, why would he desire a crop offering as well from the Hebrews along with blood? Why was he not upset that they gave him anything at all? "Geez, didn'y A and E tell you ANYTHING? I cursed the world! I don't want your sacrifices! Sheep! Gross! They'd walk into a wood chipper if it was big enough! Crops! Stupid! All they do is feed you! I cursed them all anyways! What are y'all giving me these for? Get lost!"

But noooo...he's pleased with a sheep and not with the crops.
Why?

So we have Noah who's the only righteous guy in the world, and there's a load of people on there by now, and they may or may not be giving it up to spirits for a good time.

So Noah builds a boat and drifts away to watch as his world gets completely destroyed, and he probably watches with tears. Who wouldn't?

Then it's dry, and the first thing he does after sacrificing to God, is, of course, make alcohol! Life isn't complete without wine or booze. So he gets drunk and gets nekkid and then his son waltzes in on him, does a 180 and goes and tells his brothers, who walk in backwards to cover him up, for some weird reason.

So Noah wakes up and someone probably tattled to him what Ham "did" and so in his hangover rage curses Ham forever and ever, amen, but blesses Shem and Japheth.

Now, what gets me is this: WHY would he curse his son who didn't do anything?
Is that why he cursed him? For doing nothing? Did he curse him for not covering his dad and not worrying about it? Did he curse him for coming into his tent without knocking? If that's the case, then why didn't he curse his other two sons, because they did the same? Did he curse Ham for seeing him naked? Well, that's not fair, because the other two guys got away with knowledge that he was, so they walked in backwards for respect or something like that.

Why would Noah spaz with such a severe punishment like that?

Then we have Sodom and Gomorrah, and lo, after Abraham bugs the heck outta God with his consistent wheedling, he gets the kill factor down to ten. "If there's ten righteous in those cities, I won't send them straight to Sheol." "Cool. Thanks. Now, Lord, I hope you don't see this as wheedling but what about..." "NO! No more! Just ten! Geez! Now go look at grass or something or whatever it is you nomads do."

So then come the day of judgement, two angels waltz into every homosexual's fantasyland, and they say, "Where's Lot? Supposedly, he's the only righteous man here, or else we wouldn't even bother coming. We'd just waste them from a distance where we don't have the possibility of getting our butts raped." Because that's the only reason they'd go to Lot: obviously, ten don't exist, which would mean these are the equivalent to Las Vegas and San Francisco, but, God's not going to kill the righteous with the unrighteous. So he wants to spare Lot. Now, first thing Lot does, being a righteous man, is invite the angels in. "Watch out, dudes, your fannies are prime targets." "Thanks. Hey, God's gonna kill this place in a few hours. Might wanna get the heck outta Dodge." "Roger." Door begins to shake with men banging on it. "Hey, Lot!" they call. "Let us in, so we can have our manly ways with those strangers." So Lot, being the righteous man he is again, says, "Gross, dudes. Here, have my virgin daughters. I could care less what happens to them. They're a dime a dozen anyways. Because I'm righteous, I'd rather you rape my daughters than rape these messengers from God." "Uh...inbred girls...or masculine strangers? Masculine strangers, Lot! Give them to us Lot!" So then the angels strike them blind and Lot gets out with his daughters and wife. Wife is so righteous she turns around just after being told not to and gets turned to salt. I think that was the most human thing to do: look behind you. I guess God didn't want them to be human at that moment. To supercede their emotions.

Kinda cruel thing to do to her, and a WEIRD thing, too. Pillar of salt? Sounds almost like a fairy tale. The God that I'm familiar with in the OT likes to smite everybody with things from the sky, disease, invading armies and rebels, or heck, he just opens the ground and swallows them up. Not turn them to salt. That is perhaps the weirdest thing I've ever read of the OT God doing to anybody. Which now that I think about it, makes me doubt it happened. Not saying it's impossible, just saying it's out of character.

So after that exhaustion's over, who's up for a long, lovely night of sex? So the girls get their dad drunk and bang him 'til the sun comes up. WOW. What righteousness! God spared the city destruction for a few minutes JUST for these cretins!



I suppose the reason I'm posting this in my anger is that I don't know why anyone's considered righteous or not. Everybody's fallen. Why should God show special consideration to some? Why is David the man after God's own heart? Did that mean "before" his lustful fall? Is God a butchering maniac, who, in odd times, likes to extend mercy? David was a butchering maniac. I think the lion and the bear or whatever first gave him his bloodlust with that little slingshot. "I can KILL! Bow before me, Animal Kingdom, for I am David, Slayer of Behemoths!" Then he goes to Goliath, probably with a manic look in his eye, after sneaking around the guards, and says to King Saul, "I'm hungry for the flesh of man." Saul, not wanting to get on David's bad side, sends him out on a suicide mission: "Kill that dude."
So David goes and faces Goliath and makes some statement about the power of God, with drool coming down his lips, probably, and lets fly a single stone at 400 miles a second, slicing a hole right through Goliath's four-inch thick skull. And then that's not enough. He waltzes right up to the fallen Philistine and takes the guy's own sword and whacks that mother's head off. WHACK WHACK WHACK! The blood did not stop flowing from the carotid until long after the sun had set, and David probably didn't stop bathing in it.

Wow. I'd love to be after God's own heart if I could do that. And those weren't enough. Then David had to go out and physically slay loads of other guys that just pissed him off. Except for Saul. Saul was protected by God, but if not for that, ooo, buddy, he'd shave his skin off inch by inch. So he spares Saul for God. Then after Saul's out of the way, becomes King and can't do much for God, since he wants to build a temple, but God says, "No...you went a little overboard in coming after my own heart." "Oh..." "Yeah, so I'll let your son do it, because he'll be cooler than you. Wisest, richest man in the world." "Word." So David sits around and rots and one day spies a girl bathing. "Hot," he breathes, and in his naked lust, says, "Come sleep with me." Of course she does. Who wouldn't? The King? Just imagine the stories at the hair salon. "And, ohmigad, he was just, like, 'Baby, you move my world.' And I was like, 'Squeal!'"
And then, for some weird reason, she got pregnant. "I never expected this!" was probably on David's mind. "I wonder how this baby thing works. Could there be a tie...? Nah." But Uriah comes home and refuses to sleep with his wife, possibly suspecting David of having poisoned her with an STD so that he'll get it before going back to war. Then David, in a jealous fury, gets his leader, Joab (another righteous blood shedder), to put him in the front lines. This is the kind of thing that movies like A Few Good Men are made off of: court-martials for war crimes in the past. So Joab sends him off to the fiercest fighting, where, thank God, he dies.

Only after all that does David seek forgiveness, primarily only because a prophet came by and denounced him for it.

So those are the righteous pylons of history.

And I'm supposed to be like them?
The Bible calls them righteous. Should I trust the Bible's judgement on that matter? Should I trust the Bible judgement in telling me how to live a righteous life when these are the righteous people of the past?
Granted, that sound really doubtful and cruel, but it's my thoughts at the moment. Everybody doubts; it's a fact of life. But if these are my examples, why should I want to be like any of them?

You can't understand God. You want to be like God. You have only men to look to to be like God. These men all suck the big one. And even God's got a weird sense of humor. Deborah and Barak. "Okay, since you're a weenie (which is why feminists today have no right to say men try to act macho...Barak wanted to be by Deborah alone), God's going to give the victory into the hands of a woman." "Oh. Oh well." So the Hebrews go out and slaughter a lot of guys again (they like that), and then their king goes fleeing to the home of his trusted friend, who, sadly, isn't at home. Now God probably puts some sick thought in her head, like Tak would in Desperation or The Regulators by Stephen King. So this woman, in some sick thriller climax, soothes him to sleep, and thankfully doesn't have to seduce him like American TV would make the story to be. So the king guy goes to sleep, with warm milk in his belly to give him total comfort. He begins to yawn and rolls over on his head, when this righteous woman, doing God's business, stands over his head with a hammer and a stake in her hands and, probably with drool coming from her cracking lips, and her eyes bulging out in demonic hatred, absolutely SMASHES the living HELL out of the guy's head, SMASH SMASH SMASH SMASH and he's screaming and kicking and convulsing and hacking blood out onto her camel-hair rug and he's just ohmygosh absolutely DYING out there in his minion's HOME at the hands of his minion's trusted and faithful WIFE who for God only knows WHY decided to take a hammer to this mofo's head! And she KEEPS on absolutely just BASHING this guy until he's dead and then the Hebrews are wandering around looking for him and she walks out with blood on her lips neck and robe and says, "Yo, guys. He's in here." "Uhhh...send in four guys, just to be safe."

WOW! That's how God works in history. He gets into poeple's head and with the power of prophecy, predestination and fate, gets them to smash the life out of everybody that has just pissed off the Hebrews and God. What a loving, caring, nurturing Lord!


Excuse the cynicism, but by that God, I'm supposed to model my life?

 

[Allanon]

I do not typically involve myself in these discussions, largely due to the fact it often comes down to a faith decision. You either believe all the Bible saids or you do not. I am going to make an exception but use my own rule of thumb responding to your post Ultima Avatar. I would like to start with the raw truth, it is obvious to me you have been exposed to the Grace and Mercy side of our Lord so let me introduce the Truth and Justice side of my almighty God. Let me open with Job 38: 2-3 in which the Lord responds to Job's inquiries ...

2 "Who is this that darkens my counsel with words without knowledge? 3 Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall answer me.

I want you to finish reading the rest of this chapter, then 39, 40 and 41. If you choose not to, I would suggest you save your time and discontinue reading the rest of this post. We do not have all the facts regarding the various examples you provide, we were not present. What we do have is a detailed description of events that occurred. Plus, we are given a very strong character map of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit and who they are.

Who said that the Lord is only "loving, caring, nurturing" ? My bible tells me He is much more then that. He is also the Judge and executor (read Revelation). The scripture tells me how inadequate I am to question Him and think I have any wisdom at all.

1 Corinthians 13:12
Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

My point is this, it is very easy for us to point fingers at God and say "Hey Lord, you set us up for failure" or "How can I follow a God who kills millions?". He provided a means to salvation due to a fall we caused - me directly? you directly? No but not everything that happens to you is a result of something you did. Your parents could have screwed up raising you, you could have been raised up in a third world country where your parents died in their twenties due to AIDS and you are alone. I am not here to "explain" who God is, His Word does that, what I am here to say is He is an awesome God, great beyond reason or logic, His wisdom and mercy exceed all that I can comprehend, and yet He allows me to be His son so that I may call Him Daddy.

I appreciate you have questions and I appreciate the independant thinking but not all questions can be answered in a way that leaves you satisfied but I know the One who can satisfy. Take it up with Him directly, don't look to us as the only source, we are flawed and are saved only by His grace. I will pray that He will actively seek you out and will be purposeful in addressing your real question, the one not asked in your posting but the burning one that all of us know and at the very least can relate to.

 

[Guest]

Here's my question if god is all knowing, whats with the where are u hiding. Can u hide from god. If I'm in my closet can he still see me.

I was born in a third world country never had AIDS, my grandpa was a orthodontist. There's a Nazareth convent there which used to be my dads home before my grandpa donated it to the nuns. How come everyone says third world country means everyone''s poor. When I was in India we had a stereo, tv, VCR, almost every record known to man.

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Good job. Third World countries mean countries that aren't like America. And people who say Third World countries generally have an accurate picture in their head: sheep herdsmen in Bangladesh.

And most people in Third World countries aren't well-advantaged.

God asked "Where are you?" specifically so that Adam and Eve would come out and admit what was up. That's a core factor God has for people. He can't help anyone unless they show themselves to him as sinners. That's why he asked them. He knew exactly where they were. But he wanted them to come out to him without him forcing them out to his wrath.

That's why he asked. He knows. He knows everything, so don't think that God didn't exactly know what was up: "Yoo-hoo. Adam! Woman! Anyone here? The door was open so I let myself in...hello?"

Okay 7F, Job 39 and all through the end consists basically from what I've read of this: "I am God, I made everything, I am God, and don't you dare forget it, or I'll smite you so fast you wouldn't be able to blink. I made everything. My imagination is really, really cool, as you can see when you take a glance around you. I am God." Then Job basically says, "Uh...you're right. I'm sorry for ever questioning you. I'll be sure to just nod whenever you speak from now on." And then God, satisfied that Job's torment was over and Job had proved himself God's own boy, even though he had questioned God, after all this, God decided to give Job everything he had, and lots more.

It's a wonderful book to read, yes.

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever specifically state what God is except for in the NT, I believe, and that is: God is love, and love is truth, and in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God and a load of other interesting adjectives and titles.


GREAT. I know that God is it. I have known that. But what does that mean to me? If I'm such a cretin that I should be stricken dumb while thanking God for this thing about eternal life, then why did he even bother coming to me? "I am God, don't question me or I'll yell at you." Why? Why can't I ask God questions and expect them to be answered?
Instance. Zachariah, a manly priest, goes in to the temple to do his duty with the altar, and lo and behold, there's an angel. "Zachariah, you're gonna have a kid. Name him John. Any questions?" "Uh...I'm old. My wife's old. Last I checked, people need pills to have kids when they're really old." "Uh-huh. Well, Zachariah, to answer your question in the words of God: 'FOR QUESTIONING ME I SMITE THEE MUTE!' Have a nice day until the day your kid is born." "Mmmph!"
Then an angel goes to young, sweet, rosy-cheeked, white Mary. "Hey, most blessed of women, guess what? You're gonna have a kid! Any questions?" "What?! I'm a virgin! I can't have a kid!" And, instead of smiting HER mute for daring to question the workings of God, the angel probably chuckles, tosses his arm around her and says, "Lookit, this is how it is. God's going to be the Father, you get me? Good. The kid you're going to bear will be the Savior of the world." "Oh! Thanks for explaining it to me, but not for explaining it to Zachariah, my sister's husband!" "No problem, chick. Anyways, gotta go do God's business." "Bye." "Ciao."



Now, what's up with that? Pardon my French, but what the heck just happened? God mutes a guy for asking a question, but just kinds shrugs it off with a smile when young Mss Prt asks the question.

I think that no matter what the Bible says, I have every right to question God, and if that's wrong, well, I'll look for the stormclouds to start talking to me like they did to Job. I'm sure that will be my wakeup call then. Or, wait, no. That would prove God exists, so we can't have that. Has to be faith. So I'll wait until God starts talking into my head and then when I say that God is real because he talked to my head, they'll lock me up in a padded room with no sharp objects.

So what's the point at all?
It's faith, like you said, but there has to be more to it than that. Faith is perhaps the most complex thing anyone dares to call simple and childlike. Maybe you'll start like a child, "Okay, Daddy, I'll listen to you and accept the gift of your death and resurrection." But then you grow up, and you're like, "Wait a sec...I bought every single one of these words long ago? And I didn't even question one of them? Was I on dope?"

That's what happens. Age breeds questions. "Knowledge increases sorrow" said Solomon. I agree. The more you know, the less sense Christ makes. The more questions you have, the less fulfilling this "Shut up and believe" answer so many Christians rely on becomes. Oh, sure, it's just because my heart's not in the right place with God. Great. Well, that may be true, but I'd rather my heart be questioning than blindly accepting total nonsense. Maybe that "Test the spirits that they are of Christ" passage can be applied to the Bible, as well. Asking questions is a part of the human psyche. Not having them answered is a mandate in the contract God signed when he made us. "Okay, you can ask your questions, but the law is, I don't have to answer them. Okay, Adam?" "Fine with me, Yahweh."

I'm all fine with God being a bloodshedder. It gives me an excuse use a lead pipe to beat the crap out of anybody that gets in my way and tries to assault me. "God did it, so I'm justified!" I'll be crying to the cops as they tow me downtown. Or, if I'm in a finicky mood, like God seems to be from time to time, I'll be merciful and rather than beat the crap out of the guy with my lead pipe, I'll just let him walk on by with my money before I call up my friends to give him a nap with the fishies, if you get my drift. Or I'll just let him take my money and turn both cheeks to him that he can break with his brass knuckles. And then I'll go off singing about Standing on the Promises of God My Savior, Standing, Standing, Standiiiiiiiiiing, Standing on the Promises of God.

Yeah. It makes absolutely perfect sense.
And that's what I want from God: is perfect sense. He says his spirit passes the peace of all understanding. What does that mean? It doesn't need understanding? It makes no sense? Or it gives understanding to those who have it? Because then I have to wonder if I have ever had God, or if anyone has ever had God, because as far as I can tell, no one has understanding of who God is.

But the questions are at least nice to ask.

Or should I never ask and just let them fester in my mind?

 

[Guest]

I know what u mean. When I was a kid I wanted to be a priest. I know it seems real funny right now, but its true. Then one day in church I started questioning everything farther was saying. I think TV helped alot. And it was when I was a kid u believe everything your parents say. Now I've grown up and I questtion everything.

I think its good to ask questions.

I've said this before, my cousin has most of the same questions that I have. And once he went to a youth group and started asking these questions. And the leader of the group told him that maybe he should look at other religions.
What a great leader right.

 

[Avesther]

Hi Ultima Avatar,

Lets take a look at some context and what you said. You actually came up with your own answer, in a round about way. First, lets look at what you said about Zachariah:

Quote[/b] ]Instance. Zachariah, a manly priest, goes in to the temple to do his duty with the altar, and lo and behold, there's an angel. "Zachariah, you're gonna have a kid. Name him John. Any questions?" "Uh...I'm old. My wife's old. Last I checked, people need pills to have kids when they're really old." "Uh-huh. Well, Zachariah, to answer your question in the words of God: 'FOR QUESTIONING ME I SMITE THEE MUTE!' Have a nice day until the day your kid is born." "Mmmph!"

And now about Mary:

Quote[/b] ]Then an angel goes to young, sweet, rosy-cheeked, white Mary. "Hey, most blessed of women, guess what? You're gonna have a kid! Any questions?" "What?! I'm a virgin! I can't have a kid!" And, instead of smiting HER mute for daring to question the workings of God, the angel probably chuckles, tosses his arm around her and says, "Lookit, this is how it is. God's going to be the Father, you get me? Good. The kid you're going to bear will be the Savior of the world." "Oh! Thanks for explaining it to me, but not for explaining it to Zachariah, my sister's husband!" "No problem, chick. Anyways, gotta go do God's business." "Bye." "Ciao."

In case you missed it: Zachariah was a priest. He earthly position was much "higher" in Gods eyes then that of Mary's. As a priest, Zachariah would have most likely have had the Torah memorized. If not memorized, he had a good portion of it and certainly knew intamitly the details around Abraham and Sarah. Remember Abraham and Sarah were 80 when they bore a child.

Zachariah certainly knew that God could do anything, regardless of his own age Zachariah was going to a father.

Mary on the other hand likely knew the Torah through what she was taught in the synagougs, by her father and by Joseph. Certainly, she was not nearly as intimate with Gods nature as Zachariah was. Here questioning comes from a genuine thirst for knowledge where as Zachariah's questioning seemed to be out of doubt.

 

[Guest]

was sarah the mistress

 

[sealcomm]

Why does God bless some and not others??

Easy. In fact it's SOOO easy, that's the exact reason why sooo many people miss it.

God is after people who love him. Who take up his ways, not just his Name.

That's the difference. Cain was doing an action without heart. David did have heart, (which was why his sin was overlooked). etc etc.

Imagine you had a wall and you didn't want people to mess it up.( its a nice wall, after all, you saved hard and its the work of your hands) so you tell people 'dont mess up my wall'.

So someone comes along and writes their name on it. 'boffin was ere'

So you post a sign, NO writing on the wall. You clean it and go home. Next day, there is spray paint on the wall. 'boffin was ere'. So you add to the sign, NO SPray pAintinG on the wall! clean it and go home

day after day something happens to it. Boffin takes a leak on it, takes a dump next to it. throws mud, blood, crashed a car. etc.

It doesn't matter how much LAW you give, there's a loophole. If boffin just got a clue about the wall. Just respect it. Love 'you' enough to love your wall too(the work of your hands).

same with God, he can give you as much guidance as you like. But if all you want to do is fight the rules, you will never understand why they are there. Or the guy who wrote them.

peace


sealcomm

 

[Ultima Avatar]

I don't want to fight the rules. I want to understand them, and know why they are like they are.

And how do we know what Cain did? There is nothing describing Cain's heart, only AFTER the sacrifice. Abel got sheep. Cain, crops. What's the difference? One was a farmer, the other a herdsman, so it makes sense that both would give of their own field. So why would God say, "Mmm. Sheep today. Sorry, Cain." It doesn't make any sense! Now granted it makes sense that afterwards Cain would be upset about it.

Or is Cain's being upset about his sacrifice being rejected what God had in mind all along? Division of peoples? Is that what God wanted to happen? We don't understand his ways, I got that, but for the most part, we don't like to see his bad side. We don't like to say God is responsible for the Holocaust, or for the World War I, or for any criminal actions amongst us humans. We just like to say "God gave us peace." We don't say the other half, which is "God gave us war."

I think God's got a discordant side to him as well.

Thanks for the input.

Grats, Peon. I didn't think of it that way. To me, both questions were exactly the same, but the role would be important too...makes sense now for why God didn't just turn Gideon into a koala.

But what about the rest?

 

[sealcomm]

Ok cain and able

Like most people you can see what's in their hearts BY the way they act. This is the case with cain and able.

What they gave has nothing to do with it. Lambs or harvest it's all the same. The differrence was the quality of what was given.


Gen 4:2-5
Now Abel kept flocks, and Cain worked the soil. 3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD. 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. NIV


Able brought the FAT from the firstborn. In otherwords he brought the best portion from the first lot of Lambs. He didn't wait to see how much he was going to get, and gave some. He gave a blessing to the Lord immediately the lambs started coming, believing that the lord will look after the rest.

Cain harvested, and after time brought some to the Lord. This removes an element of faith. When some of the harvest starts, if you take the best portion and give it to the lord, while much of your harvest isnt ready yet, it can be destroyed by the elements or drought etc. that's faith. Saying Lord i'll give to you, believing that you WILL bless me and this crop that is ABOUT to come.

It's wasnt the best, it was't firstfuits, and he was playing it safe out of what he HAD.

Ables was the first fruit, he was showing the Lord he RELIED on him. His was an act of passion to the Lord and that's why he was blessed. Cain could have been blessed too. It wasn't about having to chose one to be good and one not, in this example from the word there just happens to be one that's a heart gift, and another that isn't.

Remeber an offering is just that. An offer. If it sucks you don't have to take it. God doesn't accept crappy offerings from people.

remember Jesus watching the lady with 2 copper coins. It was great cos it's from the heart. (Jesus was watching what people gave!!)

It's not about how much you give.

its about how much is left.

Keep asking them questions

sealcomm

 

[Ultima Avatar]

Okay, that makes sense sealcomm for Cain and Abel. Thanks for the input.

Now what about Noah and his spastic curse on his sons?

I think I have some sense to it now: The fact that Ham opened his mouth at all to his brothers and didn't just cover his dad himself, or, maybe better yet, not do anything at all and just leave.

But why would Noah curse Ham for telling his brothers that dad's naked, we should cover him up?

 

[[7F]Piet]

Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ July 02 2004,1:58)]But why would Noah curse Ham for telling his brothers that dad's naked, we should cover him up?

Ham drew attention to anothers shame.

Noah was sprawled out naked. Instead of giving his father dignity and respect by covering him, he chose to shame his father and a gossip to his brothers.