The Jews killed Christ!

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Absolutely just an eyegrabber.

There's a lot going on against modern Judaism and modern Christianity, namely that they still hate each other.

Oh, sure, you're going to deny that, but it's the truth, and my question is this: why are we in this animosity still?

Jews, for the most part, deny Jesus as anything other than a man, and from what I've been researching, deny him as even anything CLOSE to the man the Bible makes him out to be.

Christians, of course, view him as God, part of the Trinity, Son of God, Lord and Savior, Messiah, Salvation Incarnate and such. They think Jesus is the Moshiach, the Jewish messiah. Jews say, "Nah. Jesus is the son of an adulterous or fornicating relationship, between this chick, Miriam (Mary), and some Greek or Roman soldier. Actually, chances are he's a stained child, meaning he was conceived during some rather kinky happenings, like Miriam being on her rag while Jesus is being made. Virgin? HER? Ha! God? Touch a woman? Make a son? Ha! Obviously, you Christians haven't read enough of the Talmud to understand who the moshiach will be: he'll be a warrior, a warring king, a politician who will bring all the Jews to Jerusalem, rebuild the Temple, reinstitute sacrifice and then God will be happy with us, and all the world will be wonderful for Jews."

Technically, a guy after Jesus came closer to being the moshiach. Jesus did a lot of prophecies we say mean that he's the messiah, but the Jews say we just misinterpret them, since we like English rather than the original Hebrew and Aramaic. And we're like, "No, you desert hounds! Go back to your holes or we'll do jihad on you! Or a Crusade! You want another Crusade? Didn't think so."

That's the extent of civil relationships between Christians and Jews: minimal tolerance.

Why? Why do we hate each other so much still?

Is there any hope for reconciliation?
I say no. But I'm doing a scholarship where they want me to say yes, and I'd love input from other people who have reasons why it would be yes, and for discussion purposes here, why the answer would be no.

I say no, because we believe polar opposites about the same man. Jews say he was a sorcerer who led the people into idolatry, and since a lot of guys were named Yeshu back then, Josephus understandably mixed up the Christian Christ with some other guy. Also, he wasn't crucified: the Sanhedrin stoned this guy. So we have two totally different looks at this guy.

That's reason number one. Other reason is modern media. "Why did the Jews kill Christ?" "We didn't, dangit! This is just another anti-semitic movement!" "Another outrageous explosion from the Christ-killers protesting the release of Gibson's documentary, The Passion of the Christ. Back to you, Jill."

So we have the modern media to help foster the hate. "Israelis kill some more Palestinians, who in return bomb them again. And the fight continues. Thank God we're in America, where everyone KNOWS just who killed Christ."

And of course, smart, read Christians say that everybody killed Christ, because everybody's sins put him on the cross and such and such.

And we're supposed to be peaceful with each other? With replacement theology?

That's the third factor that tells me: the only way we'll ever get along is when Mr. Crowley comes back to take over the world. Real quick: the only moshiach I see that really fulfills the Jewish idea of him is the Antichrist, some guy who will probably unite the Jewish world and the world at large by being a political bullet, and then the Jews will be like: "SEE? We have peace! Praise G-d!" And then the tribulation and whatnot if you believe everything in Revelation. Good going, Messiah.

Replacement theology is this: the Christians say that the Jews have fallen out of favor in God's eyes, and all the blessings are in the hands of Christians now, because the Jews have had two thousand years to screw around and generally tick God off and now that a better religion has come up that actually follows the Three True Gods, Christians get it all. Judaism, of course, despises this, as anyone would. Perfect Biblical example:
Esau and Jacob. "Say, Jacob, give me some stew will ya?" "Hmm. Sure. First, give me your birthright." "WTF? JUST GIVE ME SOME FOOD!" "No." "I'll kill you." "I'll tell Dad." "Blast it! All right, here! There's my birthright!" "Whee! Have some food." "Ingrate."

Jacob and Isach. "Hey, Dad, I'm going to sew goat hair onto my arms with my Mom's deceptive help and be REALLY righteous and deceive your poor blind self into thinking I'm your eldest son, is that cool?" "The Cheezits are coming!" "Ha ha! You're the best. So bless me, will ya Pa?" Huh?" "Bless me." "Oh...come closer so I can feel your harm, which obviously has absolutely no different texture for being wool than it would be if it were arm hair, because everyone knows that arm hair and wool feel exactly the same. ...Okay, you're Esau, since the wool feels just like arm hair, and your voice, despite youthfulness, must be Esau's. Achoo." "Bless you." "Ha! I fooled you!" "Ha ha. You were always so funny, Dad. Say, uh, could you bless me now?" "Sure. God bless this child. Amen." "Thanks Pop."

Esau and Isach: "Say, Dad, bless me." "(Wary, now) What is it now Esau?" "Uh...here's your food, will you bless me?" "You already fed me and I already blessed you. Wait. Let me feel your arms. Arm hair! I knew the other arm felt different!" "Other arm?" "Your brother's! He impersonated you and I blessed him." "Dad...let's think this through logically. You can't bless a fraud. All you have to do is curse Jacob for lying, and curse Rachel, too, that stupid sow, and just bless me as your real, loving, un-deceiving son." "Oh...but that's not in the Bible, because a lot of the Bible's illogical, so you'll just have to kill your brother in a vengeful fury." "(Grumble)"

So we all know what it's like to have our stuff jacked from us. The Jews aren't liking this popular quiet belief amongst Christians that say because God hates the Jews so much now He's just going to bless Christians.

These three reasons, and loads more (if any of y'all wanan provide some, go right on ahead), are why I believe we'll never get along until we're all controlled by Nero Resurrected.

Why COULD we get along?
 
everyone did.
Except me
smile.gif
Never knew the guy. But I blame the French.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]"No, you desert hounds! Go back to your holes or we'll do jihad on you! Or a Crusade! You want another Crusade? Didn't think so."
haha crusade.
 
a lot of thoughts here.

A lot of theology. Hold a dying person in your arms. Feed a starving child with your bear hands. That's real religion.

Prophecy is open to interpretation. And usually it's only understood in Hindsight. Which makes it about perspective. which is why the jews and Christians can read the same passage and see it differently.

Avatar i read alot of broad statements about you views on what 'christians think'. Usually none of them are thoughts that I as a christian have ever thought. truly. I wonder what 'christian' experiences you have had. there are plenty of 'craked' christians out there. (for want of a better word) Have you been hurt by some nut jobs in the past. Because honestly not all christians are the same. There are many who are living their faith, and others who bash people with words. one is alive and the book of James says the second is dead.

As far a peace with the jews. Imagine you have been Gods people for a millenia. Imagine that pride has gotten in the way(let me add that pride is everywhere. Jews argue with jews about theology, and christians argue with christians). Imaging an attitude that says your not of my religion, so don't tell me mine. To a Jew a christian is a sect, i guess. To a christian the jewish faith is the christian faith. It's the old testment, with the messiah. It's fuliflled. It's awesome.

So the only people it(should) makes a difference to is the jews. Remember the Lord is about HIS work in the earth. He said they would be hard. He's been telling them all through the last half of the Old testament. there should be no surprise there. He says that there will be no peace till the anti christ comes. They are also the chosen people, and are blessed by the Lord, JUST as we are. But we have the HOLY SPIRIT as well.

we could talk all night.

be cool dude

sealcomm
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Actually, chances are he's a stained child, meaning he was conceived during some rather kinky happenings, like Miriam being on her rag while Jesus is being made.
unless you take into account prophecy of a virgin birth

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]the Jews say we just misinterpret them
well, its always nice to hear a non biased opinion...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Why? Why do we hate each other so much still?
Thier arrogant hearts seek worldly power and possessions.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Is there any hope for reconciliation?
Well, there is no one I look up to more than a Jew that accepts Jesus Christ as God. To think that thier ancestors have been God's people from the beginning of time, and now they follow God just like the generations before. Nothing I respect/look up to more. I guess I am jealous of a Jew's heratage...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]KNOWS just who killed Christ.
ten four

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]and all the blessings are in the hands of Christians now,
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]God hates the Jews so much now He's just going to bless Christians
Don't mistake worldly riches as a blessing of God. Many evil empires were wicked, and yet were very rich like Babylon, Rome, etc... I think its dangerous for Americans to assume we have God's blessing because of all our stuff that we have. We all heard 86% of Americans claim to be Christians, or some rediculous percentage like that. The Roman Catholics thought that they were the good guys too. I think 86% have heard the Christian teaching in depth, but only a small percentage follow it. At least the Jews follow thier religion whole heartedly... Rich Americans are ficle. They have everything they need. They don't need a religion. They don't need answers from someone, because they aren't looking for any.  They just need some more money to buy that nicer flatscreen tv. I am guilty of that sometimes.
I get really frusterated at seeing intelligent Jews caught up in pride and traditions. I can say how I know they are wrong about Jesus, and they can tell me I am wrong.
When it comes down to it though, The people said Herod's voice was the voice of God and not a man. Just because Herod did not ascribe the honor to God, he was eaten alive by worms. Jesus Christ said he was God, and he rose from the dead.
 
Hmm...do you honestly believe what you just said Master?

"Their arrogant hearts seek worldly power and possessions". That's a tad blatant and all-consuming, and not to mention completely untrue.
How many Jews do you know are guilty of trying to make a living, or succeeding at that? At becoming rich? Is that so terrible?
Now, how many Christians do you know who are like that? Or non-Christians? Or anyone at all? Everyone likes money. Money is nice. It gets you things. To get a lot of it...who's going to whine?

If I open up a bar and sell alcohol, I'm not going to lose sleep. I'm making money off something that sells extremely well, that's in high demand. I'm a Christian, and I want money. What's wrong with that?

Now, maybe I misinterpreted what you just said because you answered the question asking "Why do we hate each other" and maybe you're talking about both sides...or just the Jews or just the Christians.

Either way, it's a terrible answer.

And I'm not mistaking blessing for riches, though riches are a form of blessing. And America's not Christian; I'm not talking about America thinking Israel's lost its blessing: I'm talking about Christians thinking Judaism's lost its blessing. Whatever that may be. Innumerable descendants, place with God in the Kingdom, a special group of 144000 to do the Lord's special bidding; et cetera
 
The problem is an perilously unending one...it keeps feeding on itself..I'm afraid it's all but self-sustaining now. Stereotypes and stupid people in large groups...we should never underestimate their power. Of course, it all started with unjustified claims that the Jews killed Christ...even though that's ridiculous, since Jesus himself was a Jew, and you can't blindly hold a group of people responsible for actions centuries old. But humans love scapegoats...and Jews always seemed a convenient choice, for the aforementioned reason. Blah blah you all know the story. Do I think there's any hope? I, personally, think there is...but it will take many, many generations to diffuse away all the negative thoughts about the Jewish people. Unfortunately for them, Christianity is going to continue to be an endearing world force, and since they are so often labled as 'christ killers,' this aspect of their discrimination will be difficult to escape. But people are becoming more educated now, and they know history, and of humanities past mistakes, and of great people's deeds like Ghandi and Martin Luther King, and these things are also endearing. I think people will begin to see the futility in the endless hostillity, and the terrible paradox that it perpetually creates. I hope that we will be able to escape from the Jewish problem, but it will be a long and hard battle.. Sigh, if only we could all just get along..
 
Ha. Get along with people who think differently. Don't be naive. That's something that'll never happen as long as humans exist, especially with such aberrations as Jessica Simspon and Anna Nicole Smith. No anthropologist will ever be able to understand what is going on in those two shrunken brains.



The reason Jews are held accountable nowadays for Christ's death is this interesting phrase a certain crowd who demanded the blood of the rabbi: "His blood shall be on us and our children." Ooo. I wouldn't say such things dealing with someone like God, and not expect retribution to come along. Then the Temple kinda collapsed in 62, and the Jews were split around by the Romans and then they were slaughtered by the Catholics in the 1000s and 1100s and then were slaughtered like animals alongside other groups in the 1900s and now they have Mel Gibson and other filmmakers to keep them happy Christian company.

Shouldn't curse yourself like that.

I believe though that nobody should blame Jews nowadays for what some did back then...I've never seen an instance of this myself, but I get to read and I get to see and I get to think: "How is this humanly or intellectually possible for anyone to say?" and then I figure out that it's not possible. They're not humans who are doing these things. They're animals when they do these things, just like they're not humans when they lynch blacks for being black and when they kill Jews for not being white and blondes.

Yep.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Ultima Avatar @ July 02 2004,9:30)]
I believe though that nobody should blame Jews nowadays for what some did back then...I've never seen an instance of this myself, but I get to read and I get to see and I get to think: "How is this humanly or intellectually possible for anyone to say?" and then I figure out that it's not possible. They're not humans who are doing these things. They're animals when they do these things, just like they're not humans when they lynch blacks for being black and when they kill Jews for not being white and blondes.

Yep.
Well, humans are animals...just really smart ones.  But the instincts are still there..and they always will be, for better or for worse..we just have to do the best we can with what we've got.
 
Guys, look at the stories in the old testement. The jewish people were always treated badly when they fell out of Gods grace. and if you read the prohecies of end times, they will be until the end of the church age. They rejected the messiah and in turn were rejected by God until the 2nd coming.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]The Church vs. Israel:

It is important to understand the difference between the things that deal with Israel and the things that deal with the Church. God has a different plan for Israel than the one He has for the Church. Israel will have a ministry, a witness. Israel was originally called out by God to be His witness to the world, and it failed utterly. The whole Old

Testament narrative is, candidly, an indictment of Israel’s performance as a witness, through the wanderings in the wilderness where they were sentenced for forty years because they blew it among themselves as well as to the world, all the way through we see their continual stumbling before idols finally leading to their captivity. (Don’t be too smug because there but for the grace of God go you and I. We survive and prosper only by the grace of God.)

Israel does have a destiny to be a witness to the world successfully.

When will she do this? When she gets her next chance. In the period of Israel’s trouble there will be a remnant being a witness. People that are saved by that witness stand before the thrones before the Father.

The church sits on those thrones; there is a distinction between the saved of this era and the saved of that era. Just as there is a distinction between the saved of the Old Testament period and this period.

God’s dealings with Israel and God’s dealings with the Church are mutually exclusive. I believe that the 70th Week of Daniel cannot start while the Church is on the earth. Just as God did not introduce the Church until after the 69th week was finished. God established an interval between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel, we know that it has lasted at least 38 years, but more than that it has endured for 1900 years!

Taken from HERE

By the way, that site has some awsome reads if you like reading prophecy.

Cory
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Thaddius @ July 03 2004,5:51)]Guys, look at the stories in the old testement.  The jewish people were always treated badly when they fell out of Gods grace.  and if you read the prohecies of end times, they will be until the end of the church age.  They rejected the messiah and in turn were rejected by God until the 2nd coming.
But let us make a distinction here...are the Jews being punished by God, or are they being punished by God's followers? In my mind it is the latter, which is why things have gotten so ridiculously out of hand over the years. Man is corruptible, influenced by outside forces and delusional thoughts..while God is pure and just in all things. If God had the reigns, things would not be as they are now, I think. Which leads me to wonder whether the Jews should be 'punished' at all.
 
oh hey, someone commented back, but I didn't see, better late than never I guess...
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Hmm...do you honestly believe what you just said Master?
wouldn't have said it, if I didn't believe.

God did not come to establish an earthly empire, He came to show us the way to heaven. Jesus Christ is God that lived a perfect life to take us up to heaven. God chose to open the way for everyone, but the Jews feel still that they are 'special' and should be the only ones.(don't get me wrong, they are special, but not the only ones that God loves...) So they reject a Holy, and perfect God that died for thier sins. God wasn't good enough for them, they must have an earthly empire, and rule the world with the messiah...
So, thats what I meant by "Their arrogant hearts seek worldly power and possessions". Its a slap in the face to call my God a scam. Many people have walked the earth, and claimed to know the way, but my God was the only one who did rediculously impossible things. If the Jews want an earthly kingdom so bad, I don't see why God just doesn't give it to them. Everything here will perish anyway...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Now, maybe I misinterpreted what you just said because...
nope, I said what I said...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Either way, it's a terrible answer.
Glad to help you not feel dumb, by spurring conversation on your thread, gee...
If you don't agree, thats one thing, but come on man...
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I'm talking about Christians thinking Judaism's lost its blessing.
ok ok, calm down, heaven forbid going a centimeter off topic...

well, we did agree in one area:
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Ha. Get along with people who think differently. Don't be naive. That's something that'll never happen as long as humans exist,
 
When I said that was "a terrible answer" I mean that your blatant "They want the world and not God" was just a tad waaaay too all-consuming and I don't think it really is applicable to an entire people of today.

The answer itself wasn't bad, it was just "Wow...that was harsh to say" kind of terrible. I welcome discussion, but, geez.

Some Jews say God isn't here yet. Most Jews don't. There are some who are "completed" Jews as we call them, who do believe God has sent the messiah already and all that. Christian Jews, in essence. I don't think it necessarily wrong that they're still looking for someone to give them power, because that's what they've been promised. Life, yes, riches, yes, unity, yes. They want all that, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Christians are to be the judges of the Earth I believe, and after we've done that what next? Back to a renewed / totally new earth. Jews have this earth only at the moment and nothing else. They have a hope in God and a look to salvation (a "salvation" I think that they will find in the form of the antichrist, who accurately fits the description of what some Jews are looking for in their messiah).


Maybe they're lost. I don't know. But completely tied to this world? Doubtful.

Bill, whether God does it directly or whether we do it, it doesn't matter. If we burn the world ourselves it's the same as if it all worked for God's ends. We called divine wrath on ourselves with the Flood, we're begging for divine wrath and we're dishing it out ourselves, just not realizing it.

See, God works through agents. Agents don't usually realize it, but they're working towards God's ends. I think every event that has ever happened was all in God's plans, from the downfall to now.
So if it's us who are punishing the Jews for God, or if it's God punishing the Jews through us, then it all works out to the same.

And yeah, the Sinai trials and the Judges circles of iniquity makes sense. Reject God again and so they're walking back in circles once more. THAT does make sense.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]it was just "Wow...that was harsh to say" kind of terrible
heh, I get offended when a group of people attack my God. I'm glad it came off harsh...

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]There are some who are "completed" Jews as we call them, who do believe God has sent the messiah already and all that. Christian Jews, in essence.
yeah, like I said, I admire those Jews

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I don't think it necessarily wrong that they're still looking for someone to give them power, because that's what they've been promised. Life, yes, riches, yes, unity, yes. They want all that, and I don't think there's anything wrong with it. Christians are to be the judges of the Earth I believe, and after we've done that what next? Back to a renewed / totally new earth. Jews have this earth only at the moment and nothing else. They have a hope in God and a look to salvation (a "salvation" I think that they will find in the form of the antichrist, who accurately fits the description of what some Jews are looking for in their messiah).
Thats interesting, I personally don't know what God promised the Jews. All I have seen is what is written in the scripture. I'm sure God is capable of communicating to them personally. All I know is what God graciously gave to me, and I grasp that tightly because its all that matters to me. I have only met a couple Christian Jews, I haven't met any anti-christian Jews. interesting stuff....
 
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