Mage Spell/Talents poll...need help with some mechanics

[Kevin]

First of all, hello all...I should be back from Jamaica in a few days, but for now I'm enjoying the beaches and mountains (and AMAZING coffee). Looking forward to talking with you all in more or less real-time again. You can pray for our travel as we are driving through the mountains, and then flying this Tuesday and customs and all the fun that that entails. =D

I keep hearing some things about the new mage talent specs, and I haven't played Lloki (my lvl 26 mage) in a while, but I'll be picking him up, and I was wondering how to spec him...I've been hearing some interesting things about talent specs, but I don't really understand how they all fit together, so here are my myths for you all to confirm or bust.

1) arcane builds never run out of mana, have good aggro reduction, and will be able to produce good, steady DPS (maybe even out-damage in the long run?), but have lower survivability than frost, and need more finesse to get the most from them.

2) Fire builds are still burst DPS, and take considerable skill and good gear to get long-term sustainable DPS, and still don't have GREAT survivability like Frost. Unbeatable in burst DPS, though. (sounds like PvP when mixed with some arcane...or is PvP still ruled by frost?)

3) Frost builds have good sustained DPS, don't frequently pull aggro, second in efficiency to only a deep arcane build (that's handled correctly) and have good survivability

Are all these true? Keep in mind that I'm a lvl 26 mage, and I really have no prference, I would like to level this guy as fast as possible, wether instances or grining, I really don't care. Opinions or comments on those statements would be appreciated.

Here are a few other things that were kicking around my brain.

Frost bolt vs. Fireball
I always hear that frost is more efficient, and fireball is a bit unwieldy because of it's longer casting time and is a little less mana efficient...but they seem comparable in efficiency, and fireball seems to be quite ahead in DPS...are the talents what really make this different? Or is it Fire's fire blast/scorch that make the difference?

What does an arcane mage do?
I hear of pure arcane builds being able to keep up or surpass others in DPS...how does that work? Your main nukes (I'm assuming a mix of AM with either FB or Frost bolt) are going to be fine (if a little less mana efficient) with AM, but your "other" filler nuke (FB or frost bolt) will be a little slow...is it being able to drop a crit when you clearcast that makes it work? I don't understand. Seems like 30% chance to crit while clearcasting +POM would work wonders with pyroblast...but you don't have it...fireball? This completely mystifies me.

Thanks for everyone who actually takes the time to read that. I get a little longwinded because I love talking these issues to death. =D See you all Wednesday!

 

[Iefan]

1) arcane builds never run out of mana, have good aggro reduction, and will be able to produce good, steady DPS (maybe even out-damage in the long run?), but have lower survivability than frost, and need more finesse to get the most from them.

Arcane builds do indeed run out of mana. Quite possibly quicker than any other build. Unless you are in a long fight and want to play the clearcast game. The benefit is having a touch more mana than the others and some will have the +15 mana regen talent in combat thing. The damage will surpass an equally geared mage of any other spec in a straight AM vs Fireball or Frost fight. However, you must be at least 41 points into arcane to accomplish this, 51 is even better.

2) Fire builds are still burst DPS, and take considerable skill and good gear to get long-term sustainable DPS, and still don't have GREAT survivability like Frost. Unbeatable in burst DPS, though. (sounds like PvP when mixed with some arcane...or is PvP still ruled by frost?)

The burst DPS is hands down the best, and in my opinion, Fire is the way to go for PvP action. It functions in PvP off of cool downs, but they are not that long. In the long haul PvE, Fire will fall a little behind frost just based on mana usage and no more rolling ignites. It takes no more "skill" than it does to play any mage well. The secret is always knowing when to do damage and when to sit on your hands and wait. A dead mage does 0 dps and the button mashing, spell spamming mages always die first. Don't look at an event and go out of your way to top the damage meters.

3) Frost builds have good sustained DPS, don't frequently pull aggro, second in efficiency to only a deep arcane build (that's handled correctly) and have good survivability

That about sums it up. Again, button spamming will pull aggro no matter what build or talents you have. Frost is also the spec of choice for AoE grinding. I might would switch to level if I was not teaming with my pet Tankadin I will just stay arcane.

Frost bolt vs. Fireball
I always hear that frost is more efficient, and fireball is a bit unwieldy because of it's longer casting time and is a little less mana efficient...but they seem comparable in efficiency, and fireball seems to be quite ahead in DPS...are the talents what really make this different? Or is it Fire's fire blast/scorch that make the difference?

With talents, it's what .5 sec slower than frost? Or was it 1 sec? Does 1 second really matter since you are not supposed to be button spamming anyway? That is one extra second you don't have to sit on your hands. It does cost more in mana, but, a mage is a down time machine. You summon food and water for a reason and it's not to be an Ironforge vending machine. No fight is that long that you will run oom with evocation and mana gems + potions if needed. If a fight is indeed that long, sit on your hands longer and double check that you have mage armor on. To really pump the damage, fire does need scorch to get there. The problem is scorch is not high damage, so while you are building scorch procs; the heavy hitting fireball is sitting stagnet. When I was fire, I was anti scorch and just stuck with fireball for my bread and butter. It can't be that far behind after you figure in cast time vs benefit vs fight length.

What does an arcane mage do?
I hear of pure arcane builds being able to keep up or surpass others in DPS...how does that work? Your main nukes (I'm assuming a mix of AM with either FB or Frost bolt) are going to be fine (if a little less mana efficient) with AM, but your "other" filler nuke (FB or frost bolt) will be a little slow...is it being able to drop a crit when you clearcast that makes it work? I don't understand. Seems like 30% chance to crit while clearcasting +POM would work wonders with pyroblast...but you don't have it...fireball? This completely mystifies me.

Arcane has the best threat reduction of all the builds, with that extra threat reduction, it allows the player to not sit on their hands as long or gives the option to follow up a volley with fireblast. For a long fight, AM spamming will run you oom. If you know the fight is going to take forever, use rank 1 frost bolt spam to get clearcast procs. When clearcasting, throw out AM and then go back to frost bolts. You can pretty much do this non stop without hand sitting unless it's a boss that requires everyone to stop doing damage until the main tank regains control. Or on other silly situations where if you do damage, you will get one shotted (bloodlord).

Remember, just because you are one spec does not mean that you can't use any of the other spells. I often times pull with frostbolt before I fire up my AM machine gun of doom.

 

[Kevin]

/impressed

sorry, just got back from Jamaica last night, and thanks for the thorough response! I was originally specced mage, and after hearing those replies, will stay that way. See you all around!