Mach is back...

Shagz

New Member
...for better or for worse, there's a port of ctf_mach out there made by VilePickle, map maker for Q3TF and ETF.

I can see it now...24-player servers running a 12-player map.

Joy. :( I love the map, it's awesome, but only with the correct number of players.

EDIT: BTW, my first time looking at the Steam forums for TF...wow, seems like passions are running high on the "why did they remove this?!" front.
 
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Any of you who played TFC with me a few years ago know that I tend to have much love for quality custom maps.

That being said, though, I want to throw a brick at people who re-make TFC maps for TF2.

TFC != TF2. (For those not familiar with math symbols, != means "not equal.")

Grenades are gone. Fine. So is grenade spam. Now I admit that I miss being able to stand toe-to-toe with a Soldier like I did in TFC, but, when I stop and think about it, a Medic has no business going toe-to-toe with a Soldier.

Conc jumps are gone. Good riddance. And I don't say this as a frustrated defender trying to kill a flag-running Medic; I say this as a Medic who used conc jumps to run flags. Conc jumps remove the need for teamwork as it propels the flag runner out of the range of the defender.

TF2 has two major advantages over TFC, and both are derived from design philosophy:
  1. The Team over the Individual. In a team-based game, a support class shouldn't be able to stand toe-to-toe with an offensive class. Engineers and Medics shouldn't be able to lay the smack down on a Soldier unless that Soldier is incredibly bad. People can't go Rambo and knock out half a team. Put another way, "It takes a village to cap a flag."
  2. Purity of Purpose. If you've read any commentaries on Blizzard's design philosophy, you've probably seen this term before. "Purity of Purpose" means that each unit has advantages and disadvantages that encourage the player to use the unit for a specific purpose. Blizzard used this philosophy to create one of the greatest real-time strategy games ever; Valve brilliantly translates the strategy from RTS to FPS in TF2.
As much as I loved TFC, I admit that one of the design flaws was a lack of Purity of Purpose for the classes. Medics rarely, if ever, healed their teammates. The Medic was a Scout with less speed, more health and armor, and the ability to infect enemy team members. The lack of a powerful offense weapon or grenades, coupled with the free-form healgun, force the Medic to play as a support class who, ya know, heals people, not a lone wolf flag runner.

So stop porting games from a game with grenades to a game without them. TFC and TF2 run on different mechanics. A great map in TFC doesn't necessarily translate to a great--or even good--map in TF2.

And ctf_2fort should not be played with 32 players. It's not fun. It's anarchy.
 
And ctf_2fort should not be played with 32 players. It's not fun. It's anarchy.

I would argue that any map should not have more then 18 people unless it is truly massive, and then it turns into a chain slaughter because it takes too long to get out from spawn to action so people get picked off 1 by 1.
 
All excellent points Tek.

Someone else in that post I linked above made the same point about "lone wolves" that I hadn't thought about before. I loved Q3TF/ETF, and I loved being able to gren jump and bunny hop and learn all those skills...*once* I *learned* them.

But rarely did the "team" in the name of the games ever become realized. Perhaps on defense, but on offense it always seemed pretty hap-hazard. Scouts and Medics never really worked with everbody else in the game. It was always conc in, conc out, while everyone else just frags each other.

And yea! Medics never actually healed anybody in the old games!! :) I like TF2's medic, because you don't really have to be good at aiming in order to be helpful, and the Ubercharge makes him really important when it comes to breaking through a tough defense or pushing back the enemy's front line.
 
One thing I forgot to add, I don't necessarily mind seeing maps get remade - they're bound to be good 'cuz they've been tested in the fires of the community and competitive play, so they represent some kind of mapping perfection, hence, I believe, why TF2 only shipped with 6 maps or so.
 
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