healers in PVP

Kevin

Kevin

New Member
As much as you all love me and my continual posts about my "flavor of the week" alt, I think I'm finally settled down for sure on one of two characters, a disc priest or a holy paladin for PVP. I do however have a few questions, and after perusing the forums, bugging higher levels in BGs, and my own experiences in BGing, these two don't seem to have too many differences to me. So here are a few questions, and any input is greatly appreciated. (Randy and Adam, I may never forgive you if either of you post about me "doing whichever makes me happy", if I wanted people to leave me a lone, I wouldn't have asked. =D)

1) Disc priests...lack armor. Are they severely vulnerable to hunters/rogues? Seems like the 41 pt talent would help with that a bit, but it is on a CD...and pallies get bubble.
2) Pallies are kings of survivability and mana efficiency I hear...but bubbles can be dispelled...is it really just the plate plus the threat of being able to bubble that keeps them alive?
3) Disc Priests get mana burn, which I hear is awesome in arena, when you can't CC their healer reliably, so you may as well just mana burn them...is this usable in BGs?
4) Disc Priest survivability...just in general, does it exist? or do you wave goodbye as soon as you see the rogue stealth?

Thanks for entertaining yet another question thread about my "alt of the week," I hope to have one of these two healers leveled (probably for PVP exclusively, but if the guild needs it, I can spec PVE) by the end of January.
 
I really can't be any help when it comes to differences in PvP, Arena, BG... I stink at PvP as a whole.

However, it seems that both classes have their advantages and disadvantages. In PvP the pally would win the damage mitigation via armor, but priests have lots of little tricks to crank out the healing - especially group heals, renew/PoM/Holy Nova... hard to interrupt. I'd be interested to see how the pally does, but I hear a lot of people liking the druid the best for the HoTs on multiple targets. I know that wasn't a choice, but hey :) The biggest problem with pallies is the lack of ANY instant spell, even a renew. Anything you do, you're a sitting duck.... get kicked by a rogue, and you're useless.
 
Priests have mana burn...and disc priests should have improved mana burn. Casters with no mana = poor mellee
 
That is one thing that I heard about pallies...really hard to kill, but easy to lock out of the holy tree. That said, I also hear they're sweet in arena play, but I also hear that a priest/rogue team does well, and we have a few rogues around that do PVP on a regular basis...there's a good part of me that wants a NE priest for the new Elune's grace along with a Pain Supression, throwing mana-free starshards...

Druids were mentioned, along with HOTs being instacast as being REALLY hard to kill, which is almost as good as healing damage on other targets (if they're DPSing you, they're not DPSing someone else). I think that disc. priests could also fall in this category...maybe not the ability to run away so much, but having the instacasts that pallies don't, and a little more versitility if I were to take this character to PVE later.

Just because I posted again doesn't mean I've made up my mind. (Randy can vouch for that...) So if anyone else has anything to throw into the pally v. disc priest debate for PVP, I'd be very interested.
 
A strong disc priest has the distinct advantage of powerful damage and decent healing all in the same form - the downside is getting locked out of the holy tree with a silence/kick...same as the pally... but at least you'd still have Shadow Word: Pain, SW: Death, and Mind Blast to play with to kill 6 seconds. Would you pick up some talents in Shadow, like blackout, mindflay, etc?
 
Playing a Holy Pally in PVP, Arena and BGs is challenging. Lack of HoTs and "insta heals" that are worth anything is a pain. I've spent many an arena match completely locked out of any spells. So, 41.2 dps auto attack stinks in those cases... I have gotten better at employing the bubble to save myself, keep healing on my partner and then sneak one in for me. We are still learning 5v5 arena. Not sure I can solo heal 5v5, our best results were with a shaman who can chain heal. While I would land bigger heals on folks being focused fired on.

One of the toughest 2v2 teams I've battled against is a priest/warlock. We spent the whole time feared...
 
Well here's my thinking on healing: either pally, disc. priest or my druid

Pally
1) strong heals
2) great mana efficiency
3) sweet in BGs where it's not as organized in arena (nobody is assigned to lock you out)
4) little weak in arena solo-healing due to the ease of locking out

Disc Priest
1) strong heals, little slower than pally
2) mana burn is great for burning the other healer
3) "filler" moves if you get locked out
4) great backup heals, but a little hard to main-heal an arena (5v5)

Resto Druid
1) VERY versitile
2) HOTs keep you from getting locked out
3) cyclone is great for small skirmishes
4) can stealth, feral charge, etc. to keep mobile and active...no "sitting and spitting" heals, more on-the-go style.

Druids and Disc Priests are great for the 2v2 and 3v3 bracket, while pallies are good for 5v5 MH, with backup from a druid.

I'm leaning away from the paladin now that I'm really thinking about it, and leaning toward the priest or druid. Part of me wants the druid, since I have a level 27 full-rested one ready to level, but the disc priest sounds intriguing to me...I'd love to have some more input, especially from guys like Mike, who I know have had some experience. Thanks so far!
 
IMHO for arena pvp druids are hands down the best healers. Constantly keeping the team hotted really makes a big difference.

I would follow that up with a pally, for survivability and never ending mana.

Priests IMHO come in last simply because they are squishy. They do bring a fear bomb and PW:S to the table, but I've not seen either of those make a huge impact.
 
I have however seen the mana burn used to wonderful effect where it determined the win..... 1 on 1 vs a lock (they were only two left standing)
 
the better question is that is the extra 1.5 seconds of running worth casting a Holy Shock over a FoL, I suppose...it's better than nothing if you've got a kick-happy rogue on you. *shrug*
 
Only recently did Camyron respec back to PvE healing. If you want to look him up in Armory, you'll see that he's done his fair share of arenas.

For the most part, his arena team consisted of two warlocks (one demonology, and one who constantly respecced between demonology and a draintank build) and himself. Inevitably, as the primary healer for an arena team, you end up also being the primary tank.

For the most part, I took a strong liking to this PvP Holy Spec. It gives you access to improved mana burn - which is vital for any pvp priest spec, all three passive defensive talents (Martyrdom, Blessed Recovery, and Blessed Resilience), and believe it or not, Circle of Healing. As a holy pvp spec, I have less pure damage mitigation than other specs, but the ability to spam a manacheap, effective, and (most importantly) instant cast (ie unspell-lockable) heal was paramount. It wouldn't keep me up forever, but it gave my two warlock buddies more than enough time in most cases to clear the match. Lastly, let's face it: Spirit of Redemption rocks in the arena, especially if you happen to have a Twisting Nether Card. Just a thought.

At the end of my arena-ing (as it were) I switched to a PvP Discipline spec. This spec is based more on damage mitigation, but you'll have to be more careful with your mana use. With this spec you'll take Greater Heal right off your bar and rely almost solely on PoM, Flash Heal, Binding Heal, and renews. The nice thing about this spec is Power Infusion (generally on a dps caster ally) and damaging shields. I didn't play this spec as long, but I did find that my survivability had greatly, greatly improved.

For the most part, which spec you choose will depend on three things: Your gear, your playstyle, and your opponents. The last you cannot decide, so - like most things - it'll end up being situational.

As far as priests are concerned, they excel in arena in two categories: Buff/Debuff control with dispel magic (dispelling elemental mastery off a shaman or arcane power off a mage can be gamebreaking moves), and AoE healing, especially with Prayer of Mending. As a group with two warlocks, we actually found enemy priests to be a challenge much of the time when, after DoTing up our three opponents we hear the incessant "ding"ing of a Prayer of Mending going haywire.

However, in my experience, priests at this time are not the "premier healers" Blizzard told us we'd be. So here's a brief breakdown of the healing situation as it applies to all:

Priests:
Strong heals w/long casting times and poor mana efficiency
Unrivaled AoE healers: Prayer of Mending, Circle of Healing
Less spell-lockable with a small assortment of instant-casts
AoE Fear is their primary defense: Say hello to the fact that half the classes in the game have ways of breaking it.
Shadowfiend *can* be killed, but is generally reliable mana recovery
If the priest has time, mana burn will win the match
If the priest has time, dispel magic can be immensely powerful
A priest almost never has time...
PW:Shield is overrated - it is not a defense, it's a timebuyer

Paladins:
Strong heals w/shorter casting time and outrageous mana efficiency
More spelllockable than other healers
Divine Shield can be prevented by spelllocking
Divine Shield can be dispelled by a priest (if they have time)
No instant cast healing is a liability
Very mana-drainable, but...
A paladin will never run out of mana. Never. It doesn't happen. I know. It doesn't make sense. Mana burn, whatever. They never stop healing. You have to kill them.
Fortunately, once they've bubbled, they can be nuked and spell-locked. They can't heal through damage like other healers, but this will still be very dps-dependant.

Druids:
A 2v2 nightmare with warriors - this team is unstoppable
Can stealth until healing is needed
Strong instant-cast HoTs allow druids to LoS, run, and evade
Nature's Swiftness is Lay-on-Hands without the mana cost
Very mana efficient, + innervate
Cyclone is useful but overrated... as a healer I found getting cycloned more comforting than alarming. 6 seconds of immunity. I can more than make up for the lost time in exchange.

Shamans:
Mana inefficient, but powerful healers
Totems can serve versatile purposes
With the right gear, a shaman can lesser healing wave spam through the most brutal dps - it's actually fairly silly.
Very short heals, but shamans are still very spell-lockable
Nature's Swiftness is Lay-on-Hands without the mana cost
Defense measures that require totems can be unreliable
Despite a lot of drawbacks, shamans are still formidable healers


While I'm definately more an authority on priest healing, I'd be glad to offer my advice on any more specific questions you'd have. In my experience, the most feared healers are paladins and druids, especially when on a team with a warrior. In my case, paladin's bubbles kill all DoTs and as the primary healer I oftentimes had no opportunity to dispel it. In the case with druids, we simply couldn't keep them properly targeted the majority of the time. I could dispel their spells, but it's more costly for me to dispel than for the druid to simply slap more HoTs on. Personally, I would suggest going with a Resto Druid for endgame pvp. They inevitably top healing charts on BGs without even thinking about it, and their sheer ability in arenas to stay away and out of LoS of enemies makes them an incredibly powerful healer in and of itself.

Hope this was less of a rant and more of a help. If you have any other questions or comments, feel free to ask and I'll do my best with what experience I've got.
 
Two cents on druids to back up the previous post.

a) Lifebloom can't be dispelled by priests/shamans. Well, it can -- if you want to give your druid healer a massive, nearly costless source of healing. A dispelled lifebloom does more healing than a ticking one.
b) Cyclone is pretty good in 2v2 if you use it on the dps and not on the healer. It gives you six seconds to corner their healer and beat him down. Of course, if the healer is a priest or a pally that usually doesn't work too well.
 
Wandering into another forum for a minute...

Anyone on the 2.4 PTR see if the improved Holy Shock is more viable as an instant heal then it was before? The patch notes states Holy Shock has had its healing, damage and mana cost increased.
 
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