emo and Christianity.

C

|CoR|Braveheart

New Member
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXktCbZzh8E
http://www.c28.com/shopping/productlistings.asp?category1=guys&category3=shirts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgFqL3fmLgg&NR=1
podes7.png

God says to live in a way that when people see you they will want to know more about Christ. and when i see people dressed like the above^ i run away, grandmas gasp and mumble to the grand kids, dads say "hey look kids now we know who to never talk too" etc. why do "Christians" dress like this? this is not honoring god, this is not serving god. and heck when you become a Christian your eyes are suppose to be opened, your suppose to start a new life. be bright and happy, not dark and evil. this makes no sense to me...
 
i like that guy on the far right.. he has a BattleCry shirt... YAY BATTLECRY!!!

And we are supposed to honor God. But it doesnt have to be just from your perspective. Idk how, but somehow that CAN be honoring God. I dont see it (cept for the BattleCry shirt, but you need to know what BattleCry is). And at least they dont have half naked women on their shirts or arms.. to me they look like they are wearing normal stuff.. is my plain white T-shirt honoring God? Somehow maybe.. but idk.

And how are they dark and evil?? Just because they are wearing dark colors?? Whenever i wear my black sweatshirt am i serving the Devil? We dont know how they feel in their hearts.. maybe they are the most Christ-loving people on the planet, but have a preference of dark colors. We all dont have to like Bright Pink to serve the Lord.

And with your analogy of
i run away, grandmas gasp and mumble to the grand kids, dads say "hey look kids now we know who to never talk too" etc.
Click to expand...
That is exactly what Christ told us NOT to do. We are supposed to run TO them, support them, bring them to Christ. We need to jump into the middle of the crowd of sinners, thats what Jesus did. And that is judging. Again, we dont know whats on their heart. I'm sure those guys love Jesus with all their hearts. I'm sure they like dressing that way, and its a way to reach out to teens who share that feeling.
 
Stc95 said:
i like that guy on the far right.. he has a BattleCry shirt... YAY BATTLECRY!!!

And we are supposed to honor God. But it doesnt have to be just from your perspective. Idk how, but somehow that CAN be honoring God. I dont see it (cept for the BattleCry shirt, but you need to know what BattleCry is). And at least they dont have half naked women on their shirts or arms.. to me they look like they are wearing normal stuff.. is my plain white T-shirt honoring God? Somehow maybe.. but idk.

And how are they dark and evil?? Just because they are wearing dark colors?? Whenever i wear my black sweatshirt am i serving the Devil? We dont know how they feel in their hearts.. maybe they are the most Christ-loving people on the planet, but have a preference of dark colors. We all dont have to like Bright Pink to serve the Lord.

And with your analogy of
That is exactly what Christ told us NOT to do. We are supposed to run TO them, support them, bring them to Christ. We need to jump into the middle of the crowd of sinners, thats what Jesus did. And that is judging. Again, we dont know whats on their heart. I'm sure those guys love Jesus with all their hearts. I'm sure they like dressing that way, and its a way to reach out to teens who share that feeling.
Click to expand...

Im not saying they're dark and evil. im saying that when the average person (grandma) sees a person dressed like that they are not going to think that their Christian and want to know more about god.


another way to put it: Gangsters are associated with drugs and crime most of the time. people that dress like a geek are associated with books and computers most of the time. so would you walk up to the person that look like the gangster and ask him how to quad boot with Vista, ubuntu, XP and win 98? no you would walk up to the geek and ask him that. most people would go ask the gangster where they can score some white stuff. same as if you saw a guy dressed like a catholic pastor on the street, would you ask him if he knows how to Quad boot 4 different OS' on the same PC? no you most likely would ask him about the catholic religion right? i sure hope so.

see what i am saying? we need to appear the way we are.
 
There are a couple topics this thread could break into so I will try and be concise as I can.

1.It doesn't matter how you look to God. I've heard these types of people (in appearance) are able to approach those who are unapproachable by other more "clean cut" Christians. Paul said "19 For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. 20 And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; 21 To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. 22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. 23 And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you." (1 Corinthians 9:19-23) in addition "24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment." (John 7:1).

2.While you should be "all things to all men" you should also "be not conformed to this world" (Romans 12:2). Being all things didn't include sinning with them. Your choices in life and who you associate with should never lead you to sin. Yes Jesus hung out with the unsaved but he also spent time away from them with only his disciples and by himself. If you find you are compromising morally by your association with the unsaved you need to get some distance. We are supposed to be saving people and being salt and light to them not being pulled down by them. I can't give an opinion whether the people in that picture are helping uplift people or being pulled down as I did not do any research on them. I can say that there plenty of other "Christians" in this world that are not transformed by any personal relationship with God. They want salvation or Jesus is just a thing to do, but, have no love for Christ. Those all inclusive folks who think Christianity, Buddhism and child porn are compatible.

3.There is a another aspect to some appearance related things though. Some tattoos come from occult origins and some piercing can impair your health (tongue studs can wear away teeth enamel etc.). Some dress also has hidden meanings as well (gang colors etc.). So there may be Biblical support against the act of getting these (your body is a temple etc.).

4.I've seen vague mentioning of not judging elsewhere on the forums and it seems some interpret it differently than I do. Some seem to think Christians aren't supposed to judge in anything and I don't think that's the proper usage.You should not make an ultimate judgment as in it would be improper to say of someone that they should "burn in hell" or "you shouldn't go to heaven" that's not for us to decide (Luke 6:37, John 14:6, Matthew 7:21-23). It also has to do with getting yourself right or judging yourself before you judge others (Matthew 7:1-5). If it had to do with never ever making a judgment one could never have a law, sentence pronouncing, Christian judge or a Christian parent punish their child, not to mention that book of the Bible that is called Judges not "discerners". The important thing to remember is that in any matter we should not rely on our judgment, but, on God's.

I don't think those guys look emo though. I could see their music being for emo's though. Is that what you mean? I thought emo was more I'm dark, depressed and want to be left alone... Oh noes I'm EMO! :p
 
We're not talking about how the guys look like in the pic. emo, goth, punk, gangster, etc. it's making your self look like your lost just like the rest of the world.
 
It's a matter of opinion and convictions really. If you're saying that there is a Christian dress code then there is something wrong there, but I think that the Holy Spirit does his job and guides people in knowing what is right. In P.O.D.'s culture (South San Diego) that's how you dress no matter who you are. That's the neighborhood that they grew up in. It's like going to a part of the world where they only wear pants and you put on shorts...You're drawing unneeded attention and most likely animosity towards yourself, because you're being needlessly rebellious (There is a culture that does that, too.) But I digress, we are no longer under the law, therefore no one should try to put us under the law, because we are in the Holy Spirit which by far exceeds the law.
Catch my drift?
 
How are christians supposed to look? And be specific, because I plan on finding a picture of a mass murderer who worships satan wearing the same attire and looking exactly how you describe. (its a rhetorical task because read on...)

My point is this, they know we are christian by our love, by our proclamation of Christ, how we treat others, how we follow the teachings in the Bible. Not by how we are dressed, wear our hair or how many tattoo's we don't have.
 
Jesus had a crew cut, amirite? I grew up largely in this kind of music culture...dressed like it, sans the tattoos and overly long hair and a good number of them were arguably some of the most strongest and zealous Christians I've ever known.

This discussion reminds me of this series of videos:

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=240ad5b9b413aa7346a1

inasmuch as they get at (in some ways good...others, not the best way) not getting caught up in the legalism without true faith exhibited by some of the Pharisees.
 
nattyg said:
Jesus had a crew cut, amirite? I grew up largely in this kind of music culture...dressed like it, sans the tattoos and overly long hair and a good number of them were arguably some of the most strongest and zealous Christians I've ever known.

This discussion reminds me of this series of videos:

http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=240ad5b9b413aa7346a1

inasmuch as they get at (in some ways good...others, not the best way) not getting caught up in the legalism without true faith exhibited by some of the Pharisees.
Click to expand...

Really? thats wierd because the only impression i have gotten of people that dress like that are just nasty people. and that extents my point, all people i have met that dress like POD are just plain sick, messed up people and I've never met a good person that dress' like that. but thats cool if there are some.
 
Just because they're not in your neighborhood, doesn't mean they don't exist.

We were called to reach out to all people. So no matter what style of music they play, what clothes they wear, how many tattoos they have, what car they drive, what house they have, what city they live in, how they vote, or even if they put mayo on their fries.... they're reaching out to others that have a similar style... but they're reaching out with love.

Gods_Peon is right. You can't define what a Christian is by appearance. It's what's inside you that matters.
 
I know that you can't judge a person by how they appear. i still find it strange that people dress like that. but i can see things in your guy's shoes, it's just very different from mine. here Gangsters dress like Gangsters and they act like gangsters, and geeks dress like geeks and act like geeks. durruck, it would probably be best to close this thread to avoid flaming.
 
Ah, I can't lock threads here. Nor would I if I could. It's an important and valid discussion. I had this same discussion with one of my very close friends a few months ago.

The problem is that we stereotype based on our perceptions...full of bad information from what we see and hear, and the opinions of those around us.

My friend didn't understand screaming music. His statement was very similar - how can music like that bring glory to God? I basically gave him the same answer that I gave you in my last reply here. It's not about what's outside, but what's inside; what God's doing with your heart.

He didn't get what I was trying to say then, either. A few weeks later though, a new guy showed up at his church with one of his friends. The basics of it was that the new guy kinda believed, but felt out of place in his old church because he like heavy metal music, dressed grunge, etc. It wasn't until the friend played some Christian metal music that he finally understood that he wasn't an outsider, he wasn't being pushed away. He found a new church home that accepted him for who he was.

It doesn't matter where you're from, what you've done, whether you wear blue jeans or slacks... t-shirts or hoodies or button-downs with a tie. God loves us all, and he made us to be unique so we can reach out to others in a way that nobody else can.

It just so happens that the guys in POD reach out to a different group of people than you are used to dealing with.

As for the lyrics in the different songs? There are a lot of singers that have songs about social injustices, sins that effect us. If you don't listen carefully, you'd think Mister P is glorifying kiddy porn, Plumb sings about self-mutilators (cutters), Dime Store Prophets had a song about Hitler, Casting Crowns sings about a guy that just wants to be rich, Skillet has a song about drugs, dcTalk sang about racism. The list goes on and on. They're not glorifying the world - they're singing about our problems. Sometimes they use sarcasm or cynicism to get their points across. Sometimes they just bring problems to light so we hear about the problems and learn to address them.

When you see a Christian band go "mainstream" it can be viewed in 2 ways:
1) The band is selling out their beliefs and morals
2) The band is finding a way to get their message out to more people, even if they do have to water it down just a touch. How many bands have you heard that you go back and listen to their old albums, just because you like what they have out now? I tend to do that a lot.

I think it's awesome that God chooses to use each of us the way that he does, to reach out to others around us...even if it seems weird. I'm sure there are some people that think we're strange because we get online and type out big messages to other people we've never met. I thank God that we have the opportunity to do it.
 
Durruck said:
Ah, I can't lock threads here. Nor would I if I could. It's an important and valid discussion. I had this same discussion with one of my very close friends a few months ago.

The problem is that we stereotype based on our perceptions...full of bad information from what we see and hear, and the opinions of those around us.

My friend didn't understand screaming music. His statement was very similar - how can music like that bring glory to God? I basically gave him the same answer that I gave you in my last reply here. It's not about what's outside, but what's inside; what God's doing with your heart.

He didn't get what I was trying to say then, either. A few weeks later though, a new guy showed up at his church with one of his friends. The basics of it was that the new guy kinda believed, but felt out of place in his old church because he like heavy metal music, dressed grunge, etc. It wasn't until the friend played some Christian metal music that he finally understood that he wasn't an outsider, he wasn't being pushed away. He found a new church home that accepted him for who he was.

It doesn't matter where you're from, what you've done, whether you wear blue jeans or slacks... t-shirts or hoodies or button-downs with a tie. God loves us all, and he made us to be unique so we can reach out to others in a way that nobody else can.

It just so happens that the guys in POD reach out to a different group of people than you are used to dealing with.

As for the lyrics in the different songs? There are a lot of singers that have songs about social injustices, sins that effect us. If you don't listen carefully, you'd think Mister P is glorifying kiddy porn, Plumb sings about self-mutilators (cutters), Dime Store Prophets had a song about Hitler, Casting Crowns sings about a guy that just wants to be rich, Skillet has a song about drugs, dcTalk sang about racism. The list goes on and on. They're not glorifying the world - they're singing about our problems. Sometimes they use sarcasm or cynicism to get their points across. Sometimes they just bring problems to light so we hear about the problems and learn to address them.

When you see a Christian band go "mainstream" it can be viewed in 2 ways:
1) The band is selling out their beliefs and morals
2) The band is finding a way to get their message out to more people, even if they do have to water it down just a touch. How many bands have you heard that you go back and listen to their old albums, just because you like what they have out now? I tend to do that a lot.

I think it's awesome that God chooses to use each of us the way that he does, to reach out to others around us...even if it seems weird. I'm sure there are some people that think we're strange because we get online and type out big messages to other people we've never met. I thank God that we have the opportunity to do it.
Click to expand...

The more i see of you the more i like you durruck. i just have one more thing: watch those demon hunter videos, most of the time i like heavy music...but in those videos it's like those people live in fear, not in fear of god like god says to be but like in fear of Death...maybe it's just me...
 
I'll take a jump and do some speculating... but first, here's the lyrics from Fading Away (the first video you linked).

Demon Hunter - Fading Away said:
It's in this wake that I find myself
Losing the will to resume this hell
When every breath is a dying wish
It's harder to follow the point of this

This broken place that I call my home
Is deep in the sorrow that I have sewn
And i can't erase what is in my heart
I wanted to finish before it starts

My own solution in discretion again
Our false solution is devoured in dread
Our own solution giving rein to it's head?
and open my face to the darkened sky

I've been fading away
I've been waiting for a call to reach my veins
Ready or not
No attention to waste
Every sorrow of the soul will reap my name
When I cease to exist

Now I've come to a final sleep
I pray that forgiveness is mine to keep
I know it's hard to forgive this man
Driving the failure into your hands

When I cease to exist
Click to expand...

Braveheart said:
..but in those videos it's like those people live in fear, not in fear of god like god says to be but like in fear of Death...maybe it's just me...
Click to expand...

Kinda. To a certain extent, I think most of us fear death. I know that I've been reborn because of Jesus, and yet I'm still terrified of the day that I - a broken, sinful, dirty man - have to stand before Him. We all know that we're supposed to do the right thing, supposed to tell the truth, supposed to always react with love, supposed to turn away from our addictions, supposed to do a lot of things. And yet we fail... a lot. So to stand before One who has never sinned, never lied, never cheated, never failed to hold up his end of the bargain... I'm scared and ashamed.

Right from the lyrics: "This broken place (body?) that I call my home // Is deep in the sorrow that I have sewn". My life is full of things that I regret. But... "I pray that forgiveness is mine to keep // I know it's hard to forgive this man // Driving the failure into your hands" It's essentially part of the sinner's prayer. And it's written from a sinner's point of view. How can God forgive us for everything we've done, even when we keep sinning and taking for granted Jesus' sacrifice on our behalves? (Our continual sin is mentioned by Demon Hunter in the line "And i can't erase what is in my heart") I added the possible substitution of (body?) into the lyrics because I think it is a possible interpretation of what is being suggested. It's not the physical structure that I reside in... it's not my house on the street with the car in the driveway that's broken. It's me that's broken.

This is even talked about in Romans 7.
Romans 7:14-15 said:
14We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do
Click to expand...

The particular Bible I have sitting here doesn't speculate who wrote which books, but I believe that Paul wrote Romans. So even Paul, who wrote incredible works through God admits that he sins. He went on in the passage to talk about how he knows that the only way that he can truly stop sinning is to die.... The same "final sleep" and "when I cease to exist" that Demon Hunter sings about.

Fear of death? Kinda. It means I have to account for all I've done. While I'm still here and alive in this body, that day seems so far away. I don't look forwards to judgement.

As for the 3rd link (2nd video), here's the lyrics...

Demon Hunter - Infected said:
I still wonder when the medicine will take its effect.
And the injection they made, it's all just left me the same.
It's hard to concentrate with echoes of your voice in my head.
From all you said, I'm still paralyzed.
But I'm almost out of breathe from saying things that I'll regret.
My time is over, I can't do this alone.
I'm infected with you, pull the plug already.
Tell me before I go, that your infected with me.
I can't remember if I ever took a minute to say.
That if it had to be now, I'm glad it had to be me.
I can't recuperate, I'm never going to leave here alive.
Just help me through this, don't let me die here.
But I'm almost out of breath from saying things I'll regret.
My time is over, I can't do this alone,
I'm infected with you, pull the plug already.
Tell me before I go, that your infected with me.
I'm killing time just trying to find the words that fall so short of you.
I'm loosing sleep, I can't compete, I'm giving out, I can't do this alone.
Click to expand...

There is all kinds of symbolism in the lyrics and the video. From my first read and watch through, it seems like the point of view is that of a person that's just heard the basics of Jesus' message - as he approaches his breaking point and nears the end of his life (whether his body is dying, or he wants to become a new man in Christ, I wasn't able to tell)

He needs someone to guide him through starting his relationship with his loving Savior. The longer we live, the more we realize the mistakes of our past - including fulfilling God's wishes for our lives. The dude in the video approaches his future with fear, crying out for help, because he never got it figured out on his own.

The second half of this post, I'm not certain on. I'm trying to interpret lots of meaning without any familiarity to the words, video, etc. Those are just random blurbs of my general impression. I hope it made sense...at least a little.
 
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|CoR|Braveheart said:
God says to live in a way that when people see you they will want to know more about Christ. and when i see people dressed like the above^ i run away, grandmas gasp and mumble to the grand kids, dads say "hey look kids now we know who to never talk too" etc. why do "Christians" dress like this? this is not honoring god, this is not serving god. and heck when you become a Christian your eyes are suppose to be opened, your suppose to start a new life. be bright and happy, not dark and evil. this makes no sense to me...
Click to expand...


Dude... all i can really say here is that you need to watch what you are saying.

You are being very ignorant to this.

Don't judge to quickly on things you don't understand.

Trust me... even though that may seem "scary" to you, trust me, i have a whole lotto friends that see them, see the way they act and are pointed to God because of them.

I have a lot of friends that because they dress in this "evil" way, they have converted dozens. What these kids need to see is that you don't judge them... and if you ever actually go and talk with a so called "emo" kid, the NUMBER ONE THING, that they hate is when people judge them on an instance.

so as a warning... the things you are saying are the exact thing that keeps these kids out of the church.

if you have any questions, just ask.
 
Durruck said:
I'll take a jump and do some speculating... but first, here's the lyrics from Fading Away (the first video you linked).





Kinda. To a certain extent, I think most of us fear death. I know that I've been reborn because of Jesus, and yet I'm still terrified of the day that I - a broken, sinful, dirty man - have to stand before Him. We all know that we're supposed to do the right thing, supposed to tell the truth, supposed to always react with love, supposed to turn away from our addictions, supposed to do a lot of things. And yet we fail... a lot. So to stand before One who has never sinned, never lied, never cheated, never failed to hold up his end of the bargain... I'm scared and ashamed.

Right from the lyrics: "This broken place (body?) that I call my home // Is deep in the sorrow that I have sewn". My life is full of things that I regret. But... "I pray that forgiveness is mine to keep // I know it's hard to forgive this man // Driving the failure into your hands" It's essentially part of the sinner's prayer. And it's written from a sinner's point of view. How can God forgive us for everything we've done, even when we keep sinning and taking for granted Jesus' sacrifice on our behalves? (Our continual sin is mentioned by Demon Hunter in the line "And i can't erase what is in my heart") I added the possible substitution of (body?) into the lyrics because I think it is a possible interpretation of what is being suggested. It's not the physical structure that I reside in... it's not my house on the street with the car in the driveway that's broken. It's me that's broken.

This is even talked about in Romans 7.

The particular Bible I have sitting here doesn't speculate who wrote which books, but I believe that Paul wrote Romans. So even Paul, who wrote incredible works through God admits that he sins. He went on in the passage to talk about how he knows that the only way that he can truly stop sinning is to die.... The same "final sleep" and "when I cease to exist" that Demon Hunter sings about.

Fear of death? Kinda. It means I have to account for all I've done. While I'm still here and alive in this body, that day seems so far away. I don't look forwards to judgement.

As for the 3rd link (2nd video), here's the lyrics...



There is all kinds of symbolism in the lyrics and the video. From my first read and watch through, it seems like the point of view is that of a person that's just heard the basics of Jesus' message - as he approaches his breaking point and nears the end of his life (whether his body is dying, or he wants to become a new man in Christ, I wasn't able to tell)

He needs someone to guide him through starting his relationship with his loving Savior. The longer we live, the more we realize the mistakes of our past - including fulfilling God's wishes for our lives. The dude in the video approaches his future with fear, crying out for help, because he never got it figured out on his own.

The second half of this post, I'm not certain on. I'm trying to interpret lots of meaning without any familiarity to the words, video, etc. Those are just random blurbs of my general impression. I hope it made sense...at least a little.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting the lyrics to that song, i could not find them any where. and yes what you said pretty much made since and i pretty much agree.

Glitch, i like you so don't get me wrong...i know that i speaking forth and jumping to conclusions at the beginning of this thread...but if you read through the whole thread you would kinda see how i changed...
 
Glad the lyrics helped. I just googled "demon hunter lyrics" and searched thru the results. Took a few minutes, but I found them :)

And I know it seems like you get hammered on for some of the topics you bring up. Personally, I love it. Not because of what is said, but if for no other reason than it makes me search my heart, search my Bible, pray, and really consider if what I think is right, or if I've been keeping my opinions held closely instead of opening up to God's word.

I used to have a huge problem with Emo/punk/goth/ska/whatever, too. Someone just explained it to me and put it into perspective, and I was cool with admitting I was wrong :)

So I say, bring on the tough questions!
 
sorry bout that... i jumped off the handle.

I got really riled up there.

I can understand. ignore my last post then.

OK, time to read through this thread.
 
Haha,

I kinda agree with glitches first post, and yes ive read the entire thread. This kind of judgement does keep ALOT of kids out of the churches. Plus you have to remember, me n glitch grew up in seattle region which in alot of ways is the #2 place in america for Emo's (it started in DC as a variation of grunge) and with the history of goths and grunge, we <3 those people cuz their pretty cool when you get to know them.

But ya know,
God says to live in a way that when people see you they will want to know more about Christ. and when i see people dressed like the above
Click to expand...

we're all gamers that run around shooting people, we're space marines that kill foreign aliens or are the zerg who rampage and murder for world domination, we're orcs who have shamanic rituals to reclaim our lands, we're warlocks who summon fel-hunters to do our bidding and demonic imps, we're people who kill in a deathmatch because its a sport, we fight demons and use magic powers and guns to try and reclaim london.

is all of what i just said living in a Godly way? as gamers we really have to evaluate these things very closely and it deals mostly with our convictions as christians, just as demon hunter has to evulate their convictions. we're gamers, thats our style. their emo's, thats their style.

thats my 2cents >.>
 
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