Believing in God/Jesus

Genesis1315

Genesis1315

Ladies
Since this topic has come up in a couple different threads, I figured it was about time to start a discussion on this alone...

So to all out there, Is God logicall or illogical?
 
I think the more appropriate question is, Do you think the BELIEF in God is logical or illogical.

God being bound by the laws of logic is a totally different topic.
 
Living for a temporary world with temporary science and temporary happiness is illogical.

Living for a Permanant God with permenant values who will grant you permenant joy is Logical.
 
Let's go with the belief in God being logical. We can open a separate thread on the other topic later.

Sorry for the confusion. I promise, I will not post again BEFORE having a cup of coffee.
 
LOL, I KNOW what you mean Gen, pour me a cup
smile.gif


Do I believe that the belief in God is logical?

No, I do not.

Being logical means relating to, involving, or being in accordance with logic.

Logic is a science of the formal principles of reasoning.

Reasoning is to justify or support with reasons.

Reason is a sufficient ground of explanation or of logical defense; something that supports a conclusion or explains a fact.

In order to have a reason you need proof.

Proof the cogency of evidence that compels acceptance by the mind of a truth or a fact.

Evidence is something that furnishes proof.

PHEW! Ok, that was a long road, but it was necesary.

To believe, LOGICALLY in God requires evidence and proof that is subjectable to the scientific method.

There is NO evidence or proof to logically constitute a belief in God.

Belief in God rests squarely on ONE thing: Faith. Now faith, as we know, is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

That is why I firmly attest that it is NOT logical to warrant a belief in God.
 
I agree, DV 100% Totally illogical!

He created me knowing:
the shame: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Philippines 2:8
He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Isaiah 53:3
the torture: (It has been said that He was beaten so badly you could not tell if He were man or animal). As many were astonied at thee; his visage was so marred more than any man, and his form more than the sons of men: Isaiah 52:14
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisemnt of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
All we like sheep are gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hate laie on him eht iniquity of us all.
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. Isaiah 53:5-7

Then, consider all these things that He did! Impossible!
http://www.endtimeprophecy.org/Content....1234567

But wait!! He asks that I go beyond reasoning and logic, that takes humbling!
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 18:3
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Hebrews 11:6

After all that He has done for me, is it too much to ask to give up logical thinking? He is for all, and this way, even the most simple have an opportunity to come to Him. (WHEW! for me:)
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. I Corinthians 1:18

He gave His life, truly, what more could He give? Oh, how He loved you and me! He is God and chose to do things in the manner in which He did, for more reasons than I can ever comprehend. Imagine! The Creator of Heaven and Earth cares right down to how many hairs are on my head at any given time. Imagine! How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them!
If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. Psalm 139:17&18 He cares for me? Me! Me!
No, it really does not make sense. Yet, how logical is not having the faith to believe in Him? For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul? Matthew 16:26

I suppose the term logic is relative. Do we want the logic of the world, or of the Bible, God's Holy Word?
 
Logic, as I have described it, is an absolute, not a subjective term. It HAS to be in order to stand the rigors of the scientific method.

Please explain how humbling one's self equates to discarding logic and reason.

I think you are taking that verse out of context and using it to mean something it does not.
 
God is logcial. This whole world would fall apart if there wasn't a creator or somebody to hold it together. Now that people will understand and it doesn't contradict itself or take things out of context.
 
I stand corrected!  I will also recant my illogical answer, for that is only true to the mind that determines not to believe.  It thrills my heart that the miracles of God and His Word do not stand up to the logic of the world!  However, they are no less logical!
For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. Isaiah 55: 8&9  

God's Word and every single Word in it will stand up to scientific method.   Therefore, it is logical!  You will sadly find many sources that will refute this. Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts.  II Peter 3:3 Nevertheless, there IS proof of the entire Book. I believe that the average unsaved man would say that the Bible is illogical, and it may appear so without proper Biblical research.  I mentioned the humbling not to take any verse out of context, but to get the point across that I see those that try to stand against the Word and refute it as being full of pride and making themselves "god."

For a time you could find bumper stickers that read, "God said it, I believe it, that settles it."  Much to the contrary! by faith, God said it and that settles it!  What I may believe/not believe does not alter the truth! The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. II Peter 3:9
However, I will say it again, there are great sources of Godly men that are well studied in science and history as it agrees with His Word. In closing, I still believe, logic is a relative term. We have the logic of the world and the logic of God.
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: But as for me and my house, we will seve the LORD. Joshua 24:15
For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven. Psalm 119:89
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]God's Word and every single Word in it will stand up to scientific method. Therefore, it is logical!
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Pick a topic, any topic and we'll run it through the scientific method.

I guarantee the majority of your topics rely on ONE thing: Faith.

Faith is independant of evidence and proof, so the scientific method will not support it.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]That wasn't quite what I meant Rithkil.

I was questioning whether God was bound by the laws of logic.
Click to expand...

I'm not responding to what you said. That's your belief. I'm stating my belief. I didn't question what you were saying in that statement. Just stating what I believe.

As for the logic part, of course not! God is God! He can do anything. Is he bound by what he has created. Is the potter bound by what people say about his pot. Does he have to change the way they want the pot to change? Of course not.
 
Hmm.

I believe the God bound by logic argument has taken place elsewhere. Try reading Freewill (It went off topic) theres a lengthy discussion regarding that.

But if God could do anything, what is the need for this ridiculous charade we call life if he ultimately sorts us into two groups: The saved and the damned?

Sadly, the 'God can do anything' argument doesn't get us anywhere. For all we know, we could have been created six seconds ago and everything I know and see and hear to the contrary would simply be God making things that way to fool us.

Anyway, I highly suggest reading the Freewill thread, at least the last few pages to see where we went with this.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ByblosHex @ Oct. 17 2004,5:37)]This rediculous charade called life was mankind's punishment for adam's sin.
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All part of God's plan, no?

Aren't you belittling God by calling His plan a rediculous charade?
 
well why dont we look at it this way. Let's say you're a non-believer (which oblviously some of you are) and you are presented with the choice of becoming a christian (belief in god). Well if us christians are right and you choose to believe you have everythin to gain, primarily eternal life. If you are right in your disbelief than what have you lost by belief in god? you certainly are still able to live life to the fullest even if death is the end. Also if we are wrong than you have nothing to lose by disbelief either. Now lets consider the unpleasent option. Suppose that we are right and you continue in disbelief. What do you get than? Eternal damnation. is that what you want? Is it a risk you are willing to take? If you have nothing to lose through belief but posibly everything to gain, while through disbelief you have nothing to gain and potentially everything to lose is it really worth it? it wouldn't seem logical to continue in disbelief to me.
 
shadetaker, Pascal's Wager is what you are referring to.

It is a completely illogical argument which I have discussed several times on this board.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]I believe the God bound by logic argument has taken place elsewhere. Try reading Freewill (It went off topic) theres a lengthy discussion regarding that.
Click to expand...

Jim - Yes, we have mentioned this topic in many other threads. I was hoping to keep this one on topic.

Does not one believe in a watchmaker, when presented with the watch, even if the watchmaker is not present?
 
Gen, we've covered the watchmaker analogy.

But, just for you, I'll post my reply on that again here:

This is William Paley's "Argument to Design."

1 If you were walking through the forest and happened to come across a stone, you might suppose that the stone had lain there since the dawn of time.
2 However, if you were walking through the forest and came across a watch, you would not suppose it had lain there since the dawn of time.
3 Inspection of the watch would reveal a complex organization of gears and other mechanical parts clearly designed for the purpose of keeping time.
4 As we know, a creative intelligence (that of humans) is responsible for the design of watches.
5 When we examine the structure of biological organisms (such as humans), they reveal an astounding complexity of design well suited to various purposes.
6 Thus, biological organisms (including humans) must have been designed by a creative intelligence.
7 We may call that creative intelligence God.
8 Therefore, God exists.

The argument sabotages itself before it ever gets going. The whole argument rests on the premise that organized complexity must be the product of an intelligent designer. Yet, in the conclusion, this very premise is violated. A being of organized complexity (God) is conjured up without a designer. This is not playing by the rules laid out in the argument. In fact, it is a gross violation of the rules, since God would likely be the most complex being of all.
 
would you mind telling me why this pascal's wager is illogical? and no im not going to go find your previous discussions of the topic on one hand you have a win-draw situation on teh ther you have a draw-lose situation whats illogical about that? also god is eternal and has no creator but is a creator. he is beyond the understanding of simple men such as ourselves
 
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