adultery and marriage... Mature discussion

C

|CoR|Braveheart

New Member
Ok, so i know some of what the bible says about adultery and marriage and stuff but i can't find more about that...so here is my question: after you get married and have sex with your Wife why is that not a sin like if you had sex with some stranger?...it's the samething just with your wife...right?
 
And as a married man can you indulge with your wifes Body when having sex? or is there some say to make sex not a sin? like some way to do it with sinning?
 
well that's a topic of which i haven't seen much o.0

i think that somewhere in the Bible it mentions clean sex, which would be more along the lines of sex to have children, not simply for pleasure?

that's one of the reasons that many Christians believe against birth control...

as for the first question... you're supposed to be bound by marriage before exploring a woman's body, since marriage is a holy union. outside of marriage, sex is not part of any holy union, and therefore is sinful.
 
Amicus Dei of [FoG];265317 said:
well that's a topic of which i haven't seen much o.0

i think that somewhere in the Bible it mentions clean sex, which would be more along the lines of sex to have children, not simply for pleasure?

that's one of the reasons that many Christians believe against birth control...

as for the first question... you're supposed to be bound by marriage before exploring a woman's body, since marriage is a holy union. outside of marriage, sex is not part of any holy union, and therefore is sinful.
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Ok, does any one know of any Scripture talking about "Clean sex"?
 
Ok very odd conversation to have in a public forum.

God designed sex and I really doubt he made it just for producing children and not for our pleasure. Sin and the curse have perverted it to its current start, but it is not the curse that made it pleasureful. Certainly sex in its "pre-fall" state was incredibly MORE pleasureful then anything people are currently experiencing.

The idea of clean-sex and only for reproduction can't be biblical (IMHO), I highly doubt you will find any good support for it.

One of the reasons that Christians don't believe in birth control is that almost all forms of birth control end up causing abortions in one way or another. Christians should take this more seriously because they could be taking part in the murder of unborn children unknowingly by not knowing the facts about what many popular forms of birth control do.

For more on that topic I highly recommend Randy Alcorn and his book "Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions?". http://www.epm.org/bcp.html
 
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Read the Song of Solomon if you would like a picture of a husband and wife sharing sexual intimacy. Many of the words used in the book are used descriptively of a man and woman's body.

You can also find in the New Testament in Paul's writings the importance of sexual intimacy between a husband and wife s it promotes oneness and unity in marriage and also helps prevent adultery.
 
I don't know a verse that specifically states that sex within marriage is acceptable, but, considering God told Adam, Eve, and Noah to be fruitful and multiply (Genesis 1:28, Genesis 9:1), Sarah was promised a child via Abraham and the fact Eve was made for Adam in the first place it's obvious it is acceptable at some point.

As to exactly why Sex outside marriage is a Sin the effects of it are pretty clear.

STDs (side note: it is completely within human power to eradicate all STDs within a couple generations if everyone was monogamous and yet more money goes to AIDs research than other non-preventable, but, no less fatal diseases).

Fatherless or abandoned Children (yes some children without Fathers/Mothers/Parents grown up ok. However, 2 loving parents provides a role model for each sex so children can learn the relationships between sexes in the world and their place in it. Not to mention it is what's intended by God).

Abortion (for those who do not want to bare the burden of their actions).

...And probably most important, but, least talked about is the emotional aspect of sex (I've heard of scientific studies that support there is one too). People today want to delegate it to meaningless pleasure, but, consider if you wanted to have only one special person in your life what act could you do to prove they are your one and only? Marriage itself is a promise to each other and God to do so, but, it is not an act that proves you actually will (look how much Marriage itself is being made meaningless today as well with divorce and remarriage). It's that commitment to one person that creates a stable environment for a relationship with each other.

Also I believe that God made it in the nature of some people to need someone "10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. 11 But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. 12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it" Matthew 19:10-12. Man had to have been made by God needing someone on purpose as "18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him." Genesis 2:18 occured before sin existed. For which God made Eve, that's one Eve not 40 million of them.

With Matthew 19:4-8, Ephesians 5:25-33 clearly a Marriage relationship is supposed to go beyond physical, but, the phrasing of the passage seems to infer a physical one as well. Also consider "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." 1 Corinthians 7:2 which talks of those who are tempted to adultery getting married to avoid it (I leave it to your imagination as to exactly why this would help).

In addition the origin of the word "sin" means "to trespass". So a sin is an act at the wrong place or wrong time it's not a creation unto itself, but, a corruption. My point being "To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecclesiastes 3:1. so there would be a proper place for sex as well.
 
|CoR|Braveheart said:
Ok, i just find it strange that God never says that you are suppose to have sex with your wife to have Kids...
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OH NO! :eek: ...with 3 kids already, I was hoping it was assumed that this was how we were supposed to be making kids!!!

If that ain't right and there is another way, please let me know! Maybe I missed the chapter & verse on the Stork? :p

(LOL...sorry, that post just came out funny to me ;) )
 
bigfuz said:
Maybe I missed the chapter & verse on the Stork? :p
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hehe in theatre, we have a couple of ex-theatre students who went from our school to college return and give us a chat on college... natually, partying and "boinking," as one of them called it, were the most talked about subjects...
anyway, the second person finished talking about partying and one of the people in the class said, "you still haven't answered my question!" The guest said, "Babies come from storks, dear." [i must have missed it when he asked where babies come from, but it was funny anyway.]

uhm yeah i feel uncomfortable mentioning what recent ideas about sex i think are bound to be sinful... lol
 
bigfuz said:
OH NO! :eek: ...with 3 kids already, I was hoping it was assumed that this was how we were supposed to be making kids!!!

If that ain't right and there is another way, please let me know! Maybe I missed the chapter & verse on the Stork? :p

(LOL...sorry, that post just came out funny to me ;) )
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Lol yeah i see how you would see that...but still...
 
The entire idea behind marriage is for the husband and wife to come together spiritually as well as physically. To state that you can't have sex for fun with your wife would be stretching it quite a bit. Sexuality is the fruit that results from having a good relationship, the problems come in when the relationship results from the sex.
 
I think you may be over thinking it.

Is eating ok? Eating to much is gluttony, to little is anorexia, both are unhealthy.
Is sleeping ok? Sleeping to much is laziness, to little is sleep deprivation, both are unhealthy.
Is breathing ok? Breathing to much results in hyperventilation, to little asphyxiation, both are unhealthy.

Does God mention all of them specifically? No.

Everything on Earth has a time and place decided by God and anything done out of that timing always results in pain. God doesn't cover a lot of things specifically in the Bible, nukes, cloning, animal abuse, child abuse, age of consent, drug use and on and on. You simply couldn't cover everything in life specifically in any book and trying to do that is one of the problems in society today. We create laws so we can all say "X" is wrong, but, you can never create enough laws to define everything AND define all the terms used in those laws so people always find a way to pervert their meaning to serve themselves. That's one of the reasons it's so important to have a personal relationship with God because by living in the spirit, not the law, you have a guide and the will to pursue the truth. Quite frankly while it is not specifically stated (to my limited knowledge) that sex within marriage is ok it is pretty obvious by all the circumstances in the Bible. Which is probably why it isn't mentioned to begin with.
 
More scripture...

1 Corinthians 6:15-20, "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.' But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."

Sex within marriage is the most intimate union possible between a man and a woman, and is a very good thing. It only becomes a sin when done outside of marriage.

As mentioned above... read Song of Solomon. The descriptions in that book are the perfect picture of a husband/wife relationship. Note too that it's also a correlation to how Christ (the husband) and the church (the wife) relate to each other... indulging each other with joy and happiness, not dread or fear, and not holding back from each other.

If you look at what the Bible prohibits about sex, it basically boils down to...

*Sex should only take place within the confines of marriage.
*Sex may never involve: A. another person besides your mate, B. Any animal, C. Anything that causes harm to either person's body.

Other than that it is up to the couple and God.

And ya know, God did say, "be fruitful and multiply". He made sex to be enjoyable, for two reasons: happiness for the couple and to populate the earth.
 
moxie said:
More scripture...

1 Corinthians 6:15-20, "Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.' But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body."

Sex within marriage is the most intimate union possible between a man and a woman, and is a very good thing. It only becomes a sin when done outside of marriage.

As mentioned above... read Song of Solomon. The descriptions in that book are the perfect picture of a husband/wife relationship. Note too that it's also a correlation to how Christ (the husband) and the church (the wife) relate to each other... indulging each other with joy and happiness, not dread or fear, and not holding back from each other.

If you look at what the Bible prohibits about sex, it basically boils down to...

*Sex should only take place within the confines of marriage.
*Sex may never involve: A. another person besides your mate, B. Any animal, C. Anything that causes harm to either person's body.

Other than that it is up to the couple and God.

And ya know, God did say, "be fruitful and multiply". He made sex to be enjoyable, for two reasons: happiness for the couple and to populate the earth.
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Very interesting, that helped a lot. what Version is that from?
 
Hmm. Okay, my two bits...

Let me point out a problem with your question. A problem of perspective.

No, not a moral one. Just an interesting viewpoint one.

You seem to be assuming that a) Sex Is Bad and b) Marriage Makes it Good.

This is actually incorrect.

In the Bible record and in the world around us, we see: Animals have sex. Humans have sex. Plants don't, but they also procreate.

So basically, sex and procreation are natural, part of creation.

Sex, in short, is good.

Now, you may be asking, what about sex for pleasure? I'll get to that.

Anyhow, I'd like to point out that Sex is not bad. God invented it himself. He also told humanity to be fruitful and multiply. For the last, oh, at least 6 thousand years if not more depending on your views on Universal Synthesis (a term that, yes, I did just make up now, meaning the way that the universe came to pass,) before the invention of in vitro fertilization, human beings and the rest of animal/sentient life have had to use sex to be fruitful or multiply... something that if God had a real problem with, he would have mitigated.

Okay, so in general, I think it's entirely appropriate to say that the concept of sex is good. But, what about sex for pleasure?

Basically, Sex is good for more than just making babies. The Bible in fact Commands married couples to have sex.

Really.

No, seriously really.

Okay, fine, I'll unpack it. The Apostle Paul commands that married couples not abstain from sex unless for brief fasts -- and then only for purposes of prayer. Otherwise, he says, you might be tempted to do bad things with your sex life.

In short: Sex good. No sex... could be problematic, so avoid it.

No, I'm not going to quote the verse. Trust me, it's in there. I gave you a hint, it's in the writings of Paul. Go find it yourself. Thank you.

Alright... but... the Bible says a lot of bad stuff about sex, right?

Wrong!

The Bible says nothing bad about sex. It says quite a lot about promiscuity -- that is, doing bad stuff with your sex life.

See, I said sex was good. When I said "sex," I meant specifically sex the way God invented it: Intimate, Close, IN MARRIAGE, and Pleasurable.

Sex outside of marriage, Sex against consent, Sex with Animals, Sex with your own gender... these are all things that are not "sex" the way God invented it.

Sex is good. Promiscuity is bad.

But never forget, Sex is good. Not dirty, sinful, or evil... the idea that Sex itself is a sin is a holdover from the Gnostic heresies, which also teach that God is evil and hates Jesus and the rest of us... please, let's not go there :)

It's a rant for another time :)
 
Neirai the Forgiven said:
Hmm. Okay, my two bits...

Let me point out a problem with your question. A problem of perspective.

No, not a moral one. Just an interesting viewpoint one.

You seem to be assuming that a) Sex Is Bad and b) Marriage Makes it Good.

This is actually incorrect.

In the Bible record and in the world around us, we see: Animals have sex. Humans have sex. Plants don't, but they also procreate.

So basically, sex and procreation are natural, part of creation.

Sex, in short, is good.

Now, you may be asking, what about sex for pleasure? I'll get to that.

Anyhow, I'd like to point out that Sex is not bad. God invented it himself. He also told humanity to be fruitful and multiply. For the last, oh, at least 6 thousand years if not more depending on your views on Universal Synthesis (a term that, yes, I did just make up now, meaning the way that the universe came to pass,) before the invention of in vitro fertilization, human beings and the rest of animal/sentient life have had to use sex to be fruitful or multiply... something that if God had a real problem with, he would have mitigated.

Okay, so in general, I think it's entirely appropriate to say that the concept of sex is good. But, what about sex for pleasure?

Basically, Sex is good for more than just making babies. The Bible in fact Commands married couples to have sex.

Really.

No, seriously really.

Okay, fine, I'll unpack it. The Apostle Paul commands that married couples not abstain from sex unless for brief fasts -- and then only for purposes of prayer. Otherwise, he says, you might be tempted to do bad things with your sex life.

In short: Sex good. No sex... could be problematic, so avoid it.

No, I'm not going to quote the verse. Trust me, it's in there. I gave you a hint, it's in the writings of Paul. Go find it yourself. Thank you.

Alright... but... the Bible says a lot of bad stuff about sex, right?

Wrong!

The Bible says nothing bad about sex. It says quite a lot about promiscuity -- that is, doing bad stuff with your sex life.

See, I said sex was good. When I said "sex," I meant specifically sex the way God invented it: Intimate, Close, IN MARRIAGE, and Pleasurable.

Sex outside of marriage, Sex against consent, Sex with Animals, Sex with your own gender... these are all things that are not "sex" the way God invented it.

Sex is good. Promiscuity is bad.

But never forget, Sex is good. Not dirty, sinful, or evil... the idea that Sex itself is a sin is a holdover from the Gnostic heresies, which also teach that God is evil and hates Jesus and the rest of us... please, let's not go there :)

It's a rant for another time :)
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You should go to law school.
 
I agree with Neirai the Forgiven. All of that is 100% true.

Also, there is a reason Paul talks about only brief fasts from sex... I'll post more on that later when I can actually think without worrying about work..

Yes I'm not married, but I do have an open communication with my parents on things of this nature.
 
The best read on this IMO would be a book called One Flesh. It was written by Pastor Bob Yandian, and is used worldwide in many Bible schools\colleges. It explains, Biblically, about the creation of man and woman, the relationship meant to be between the two (more than just procreation), and the representation of that relationship. There is so much symbolism that went into the creation of us that many people don't realize.

This is a must read book for anyone with questions regarding marriage, sex, and the creation of man\woman.
 
Braveheart asked Moxie what version of the Bible his info was from. Turns out, other than slight differences in translations, etc... most of them will say about the same thing. Personally, I find the KJV hard to read, but usually a good translation. NAS and NIV are easy to read - but be careful - there are a lot of people that don't like the NIV because it changes some of the wording, lists some texts that are considered questionable (but notates it in the text, as well).

Anyway,

Proverbs 5:18-19:
18May your fountain be blessed
and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth.
19A love doe, a graceful deer -
may her breasts satisfy you always
may you ever be captivated by her love.

I thought this passage was interesting - the entire chapter 5 of Proverbs is talking about not falling into the trap of sin with the adulteress. Then these two verses are added in the middle of it to show you where you should go - to your loving wife. The Bible clearly says "don't have extramarital sex" and in the same instruction, say to go to your wife. I believe that the implication is "and enjoy sex with her."
 
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