What does the Yin-Yang symbol represent?

L

lightningstrike

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Westerners (and most Chinese as well) all think they know what the cultural symbols of China are. The Great Dragon and the Symbol of Yin-Yang, Right? What else could they be?

Well, they are actually wrong.

We know from the Bible that Satan took the form of a snake. The God-worshipping ancient Chinese during the Faithful Age seemed to be aware of this as well. If one examines China's most ancient classics, instead of the deviant books written in later ages, one finds that the ancient Chinese during the Faithful Age represented the Great Dragon as a symbol of great evil. The oldest Chinese legends refer to events that must have taken place before the Great Flood. Dragons were everywhere in China back then, according to this legend, and harassed the people greatly and caused much distress. The Chinese Dragon has the same shape as the snake, it is essentially a giant snake. So far from being China's primary cultural symbol, the Great Dragon is actually a Satanic curse upon the land of China. It is sad that the Chinese of later times mostly were not aware of this fact.

What about the Yin-Yang symbol? Again, examining China's ancient books, one finds that the symbol of Yin-Yang is indeed an important cultural symbol. But what does it actually mean? Modern people believe it represents the union of opposites, or even more specifically the sexual union between male and female. People of the "New Age" orientation sometimes use this symbol a lot and quite often interpret it in the sexual way. Apparently, sexual manuals have been written that are based on the "principle of Yin and Yang". Well, they are wrong again. The earliest Chinese books do not attribute sexual or gender-related meanings to the Yin-Yang symbol at all. The Yin-Yang symbol was originally meant to be a mystical and philosophical abstraction of the relationship between God and humans. The lighter half of the symbol, the "Yang" part, represents the Light, and the righteous God, the darker half of the symbol, the "Yin" part, represents the darkness, and the sinful humans. The small area of light within the darkness represents spiritual conscience, the only source of moral light that still exist in fallen humans. The small area of darkness within the light represents the fact that even though there is a great unpassable gulf between God and humans, God is not detached from us, for he knows and understands how we feel and can therefore empathise with our sinful nature even though God is the Completely Infinite Light. This is the true meaning of Yin-Yang. In a certain way it does suggest the philosophical idea of union between opposites. The Chinese wisdom within this symbol suggests the dialectical nature of the relationship between God and humans. On the one hand, God is infinitely separated and distant from humans due to human being's sinful nature, but on the other hand God is also infinitely close to us, for we are created in His image and He can empathise with us. Its purpose is to on the one hand remind people of this fundamental difference between the Light of God and the darkness of humans, so that humans can have humility and are humble before God, and do not become prideful or arrogant, and on the other hand to remember the closeness between ourselves and God and that He is not just sitting on a distant throne. The later ages, however, as China's spirituality declined and deviated from the true Godly Way, this noble spiritual symbol of ancient China was defiled, debased and transformed into a symbol of lust, of sexual union between man and woman. Sexual symbols are widely found in barbarian and pagan cultures. (e.g. they were abundant in pagan Europe, in the Greco-Roman world, and among non-Chinese Asiatic peoples) Our Chinese forefathers worshipped God and had no use for any of these symbols. But as China fell deeper and deeper into the spiritual abyss, lust became more and more abundant and this symbol was transformed into a sexual one.
 
Perhaps you have lost your way little one.
The china history/philosophy forums are in another location.
i am nothing0.
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA. AMEN
 
Adelpit,

This is an open Christian forum. He is welcome to post this here to discuss. I don't know a whole lot about China and the cultures that stem from there, so I find it rather fascinating that he has this knowledge.

lightningstrike, are you chinese then? What references do you use to find this information that you bring to share with us?

Cory
 
There is such a thing as an open forum and then there are forums better suited for him to find his answers in.
And i see you have admitted you do not know what he is speaking of.
So then do you think it fit for you to waste his time letting him speak to an ignorant audience or is the better way to suggest as i have done for him to search in those forums where he actually has a chance to find what he seeks.
i could easily discover those things he seeks and provide him the necessary information, but as i do not care to run off on a dead end tangent, i will resume what i am pursuing:The proper edification of the Sheep, mrpop  withstanding. amen
For unlike mrpop, i have been into both jewish and messianic jew forums and they COULD NOT DEFEAT these things by THE HOLY GHOST i have brought.
Now i give you here the opportunity to prove this information in some kind of an error.
i am nothing0 and know lighteningstrike would be better suited elsewheres and when he has discovered the answers he sought, then rush back to enlighten you and mrpop.
For he would not be better able to enlighten me than THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE SPIRIT OF THRUTHE. AMEN
JESUS IS THE LORD1PRAISE THE LORD1THE LORD YESHUA.
However,since all in here may be desperate for something they can be amused by, then let the chinese heresy roll!
And when you have finished with him, maybe you will excommunicate him same as leo.
i will see what you will do.
 
well im chinese, kinda. im mostly chinese but also scotch, irish, welch and spanish and lightnings post is very accurate bout yin-yang though ive never heard that stuff bout the dragon. thing that interests me is that almost every part of the world has their own type of dragon, and they can be to some extent a reptile.
 
To Thaddius:

Yes, I am Chinese.

Thank you for your interest. The sources I have used for the ideas on Yin-Yang are unfortuately Chinese ones which as far as I know do not have any English translations. The ideas about the dragon is from another Chinese Christian site called "China Soul". There is actually an English translation of this website, but the specific details of what I based my ideas on is from a very good Chinese Christian book called "The Repentance of Shenzhou [which means "Land of God"]" which again does not have an English translation. However, I got a lot of my general ideas about the connections between the Judeo-Christian culture and the ancient Chinese culture from this "China Soul" site. So if you would like to, you could check this site out.

The English version of the website is at:

http://www.chinasoul.com/e/cs-e.htm

Now I must say I don't necessarily agree with every point they represent on the site, but I have based a lot of my ideas on the things they present there.

The book "The Repentance of Shenzhou" is written by a very talented Chinese Christian scholar and writer named Yuan Zhiming. I don't agree with everything he says but I still respect this man a lot. There is a short biography (in a sense) of him at the following web address called "Since I believed in the Lord":

http://www.chinasoul.com/e/e-wk/since.htm

There is another article written by him called "God and China". It is at

http://www.chinasoul.com/e/e-wk/God-China.htm

The "Repentance of Shenzhou" has been made into a video series. The English translations of the plot summaries of this video series can also be found on this website. The summaries for episodes 1 and 2 briefly examines the connections between ancient Chinese culture and the Bible. They are at:

http://www.chinasoul.com/e/e-wk/episode01.htm
http://www.chinasoul.com/e/e-wk/episode02.htm

I need to make a comment on one of the points they make though. In the plot summary for episode 1, point A7, the Jewish settlement is actually documented in Chinese historical texts (which I feel they should have mentioned there), it dates back to the Song Dynasty (960-1271 AD) about a thousand years ago. The reason I make this point is that without knowing the time period that the settlement existed in, one could mistakenly believe that it dates from BC times, but as I commented previously, there was no direct contact between the Jewish and the Chinese peoples before Christ.
 
To Atown:

Hi, nice to meet you.

Regarding the "dragon" you could have a look at the sites for the plot summaries that I have mentioned in my previous reply if you like. The central point regarding the "dragon" is that it is clearly a creature that was considered to be a great evil in the ancient Chinese books, yet for some reason Chinese people in later ages (and most people today) actually believes that they are descendants of the dragon. This is a clear sin against God. In fact, it is explicitly stated in the Five Classics that Huangdi, the founder of the Chinese civilisation and the father of the Chinese nation, is a descendant of Andeng and Nuwa, which are Chinese names for Adam and Eve. Also from the Bible we know that all the nations are descendants of Noah. Therefore Chinese people are descedants of God, not of the dragon. The dragon has usurped the role of God in China, to me this is quite ominous. Now the ancient Chinese were once God-worshipping people, so what caused China to descend into the spiritual dark ages? Chinese sources clearly states that China lost the Great Way of God due to the evil doings of the dragon. Combined with the fact that the Chinese dragon is a giant snake and the snake is the form that Satan took in the Garden of Eden, I think the Chinese dragon is a Satanic symbol that has led our people astray.

What would this mean exactly? Personally I perfer not to get too mystical about it. I tend to look at the effects of the dragon culture. Now since the 3rd century BC Chinese emperors have usurped the glory of God by calling themselves "emperor-gods", and they also consider themselves to be essentially earthly incarnations (especially after the infiltration of Buddhism into China in the 2nd century AD) of the dragon. (I suppose you could say, as I think the dragon is Satanic, that they are "incarnations of Satan", although this is I think too extreme) So the evil dragon is in effect all the Chinese dictators that had oppressed and misled the people for thousands of years. A lot of China's problems can be traced back to the system and culture of one-man dictatorship (rule by the human emperor-god rather than by God), so in a sense a lot of China's problems are ultimately caused by the dragon culture.
 
The guy from answersingenesis showed a slide of a certain text that referred to dragons. He explained that this was a possible reference to dinosaurs... I can't say for certain, as I can't read chinese (I'm a failure... I'm Chinese, and can't speak, read or understand... any dialects...
sad.gif
, bah I only know enough Mandarin to communicate with my grandma...) That's the only other view I have of the dragon symbol... but the new point lightning brought up is also quite interesting...:p
 
My dearest Adelpit,

First of all, I am asking you to please be nice. Do not put the members of this forum down or attack them personally. Please refrain from calling our members 'little one', calling us an 'ignorant audience'. If you have something against Lightning's writings, then say just that, and give us some supporting reasons why. After all, that's what a debate is all about. It is not, at all, about putting down the other person simply because their ideas do not fully match your own.

Second, if Lightning will not 'enlighten you', then perhaps it is best that you do not read it? After all, why read what seems to be foolish in your eyes if you know it will not help you in any way? But if you read them to find error, then do not just say, "there is error" and leave it at that. Tell us why so that we can have a better understanding of your position. (Just a suggestion)

And finally, Lightning is doing something with his posts that Leo, and sometimes you don't even do. He presents an idea, and then backs it up with strong supporting argument that we can clearly understand and look up ourselves if we have to. (sorry Leo, but using Saints and Queen Mary isn't much support when most of the people here have already discredited it) So far, I've been intrigued by his ideas, and both logically and scripturally, they seem quite sound.

Now, if you do not believe Lightning strike to be truthful, there is nothing wrong in saying that. And if you so please, give us your reasons as to why you believe this person to be presenting false information. But please, don't put him or us down for it. Its just not proper forum etiquette. Besides, I'm intrigued by some of your ideas as well, I just wish you would have better scriptural support for it. After all, you did say "i could easily discover those things he seeks and provide him the necessary information." I'm very interested in what it is you have for us.
 
Hey Lightning,

You have been presenting some quite fascinating information, but I am curious.  Where do you get your information?  Are you a student of Ancient Chinese culture, or have you just done a lot of research?

I'm just curious because whatever you used to get started in the study of ancient cultures, I may use to get myself started. Who knows?
 
Hi Malohaut and others

Well I am not a student of ancient Chinese culture but I do know a little bit about the topic because I am Chinese and I was born in China. I have done a little bit of on-line research as well that is related to the things I've been posting, but I dare not say I've done a lot.

You may ask why am I posting all these things anyway? Do I want to convince people that it is indeed true that ancient China once worshipped God? Well, to a certain extent perhaps. But I also hope I would receive some feedback from the people here as well, regardless of whether they are critical comments or affirmations. I seek the truth so I will not stubbornly stick to what I believe if someone can clearly and convincingly prove that it is wrong. But I must stress again that the topic I am writing about, which claims that the Chinese God is identical to the Christian God, is a serious one, as people, including both Christians and non-Christians, and including many great thinkers, have been making similar comments for centuries.

Nor is this topic an entirely academic interest. There are those who believe that just spreading the truth of the gospel is enough. But there are also those that believe to probe the link between Christianity and ancient Chinese culture would provide the most effective way of spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ in China, or at least among Chinese intellectuals. The unfortunate thing is that despite the fact that Christianity first reached China more than 1300 years ago, most Chinese people today still consider it a foreign religion rather than the universal truth of salvation that it is. So some hope that by constructing links between Christianity and Chinese culture the Good News can be made more acceptable by people in China. Indeed, Christianity needs to be made Chinese if it is to truly take root in China.

Today Christianity is spreading very quickly in China but mostly it is still a religion among the less educated. If Christianity is to become a part of the mainstream culture of China, it needs to engage with the intellectual class and for that it needs to be intergrated with Chinese culture. There have been many attempts at doing this from many different angles, but it is far from easy.
 
Be careful that Chinese culture isn't integrated in the manner that my own was "integrated" by Charlemagne... You may find yourselves having to work around a lot of holes in your historical record when you have to reconstruct later!

It certainly is an interesting interpretation of Yin-Yang, although the symbol itself is so utilitarian and represents such an obvious general truth that it can be used as a metaphor for almost everything. I do find the two dots are explained rather clumsily, however, and think that more work needs to be done in this area. The idea of the white dot in humanities darkness representing our chance for grace and redemption, that tiny piece of the infinite that is in all of us, works nicely, in my opinion. I am less happy with the concept that the dark dot in the white of the godhead represents the fact that God will never forget us, however. This feels clumsy and forced. It is easily repudiated by an examination of the symbology and meaning of the symbol.

The whole concept of the Yin-Yang is of the reconciliation of equals and opposites, and the fact that an integration already exists - if we have the wit and enlightenment to see it. Take the metaphor of light. Without light we cannot see an object. Yet if you over-saturate the object with bright, bright light you STILL won't be able to see it. In fact it is not until you achieve the harmony of light and dark, that the shadows that lend relief to the uniformity of light make the true shape of the object plain to the eye.

In much the same way, we already know that without the God(s) Man is nothing - however Yin-Yang would have us also consider what God would be without us.
 
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]It certainly is an interesting interpretation of Yin-Yang, although the symbol itself is so utilitarian and represents such an obvious general truth that it can be used as a metaphor for almost everything.

Hi, Eon.

While what you say is true in a certain sense I think it is also important to examine what the Yin-Yang symbol meant originally to the people who actually created it in the first place. It is quite clear from the earliest ancient Chinese sources that the original meaning of "Yang"(the light part of the symbol) is "Godly" and the original meaning of "Yin" (the dark part) is "humanly". Yin-Yang therefore represents the contrast between the holy light of God and the dark sinfulness of human beings. It is not so clear from these early sources what the "dots" actually meant, however, so I admit that the interpretation of these "dots" is indeed my personal extrapolation.

Admittedly, in later ages, this symbol was used by various groups (e.g. the religious Daoists in ancient China and certain modern "New Age" people) to mean totally different things, the most popular interpretation being the sexual contrast/union between male and female, which I think is a debasement of the original meaning. I believe the original meaning of the symbol as recorded in the earliest Chinese texts is the only authetic one.

Also, I agree with what CCGR said about what God would be without His creation. God's existence (in Christianity) is transcendental and independent of what He created. He alone is the Creator, everything else is the created. The created cannot exist without the Creator, but the Creator exists even if He does not create anything. The idea that somehow God's status would be affected by the presence of humans is to me a very anthro-centric idea filled with sinful human pride in the importance of themselves.

Ancient Chinese ethics is based on a number of key principles of binary relations (e.g. loyalty between ruler and subject, love between husband and wife, faithfulness between friend and friend etc) that must never be trespassed. The Chinese name for such principles is called " lun". The most important lun is the one between God and humans. God and humans are not equal. God is above us. He is infinite. We are finite. He is the Creator. We are the created. He is perfect. We are imperfect. This is the most important ethical principle on which all other ethics can be based on. So I personally think attempting to consider "what God would be without us" is going down on a very dangerous route.
 
dang man useally i dont reply to deep stuff like this cuz im afriad it might affect my believes but this i feel i have enough knowlege to reply on. on topic: ur dragon presentation is very interesting, however what about europian dragons?? in some way in that culture would that some how be connected to satan?? also i know of budism havin major impact on china, and how do u think affected the yin-yang symbol? and on the thing bout God bein God with or without us, i always asked people when i was younger: how long was God there before he created us? now thats a fools question but worth adding in here.
 
European dragons - other than the wyrms of the North, of course, are probably a carry over from our Aryan ancestry. All the dragons probably evolved from the same basic legend, and mutated to fit the environment of the new listeners.

As regards the nature of Creator and Created - having studied the Ying - Yang don't you feel you've missed the most important message? How can the Creator exist independently of the Created - by definition!


Eon
 
eh, forgive me if i dont really fully understand all that creator, co-exist thingy, thats y i really didt comment on it.
 
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